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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#121

Post by constantius »

dofm wrote: post #47
Schiendelman wrote: post #6

They weren't? That's more surprising given the UK surveillance state.

The concept of the UK "surveillance state" is actually quite overcooked. It's largely based on myth and dramatisation. BTP probably have a national live feed of railway station cameras. I bloody hope they do, considering it's a rather small, quite centralised police force that covers an enormous rail network, but they are known to have hired "super-recognisers" — skilled CCTV operators — instead. We have had generati…

> based on myth and dramatisation

> We have had generations of terror threats to and attacks on our railway system, trains, railway stations

I think your take might be based on myth and dramatisation too, as well as a misunderstanding of what the purpose of surveillance is (it's not about protecting children, or trains).

And agree with sibling about Ireland: the Troubles would have been solved by getting the hell out.

I invite you to check how the English government is reacting to independentist movements in Scotland and Ireland post-Brexit if you think they're happy to let people be.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#122

Post by [deleted] »

fragmede wrote: post #106
dofm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about grounds to arrest them, it's about practicality. If you need to arrest someone in London (someone who might be about to cause harm) then there's a very good chance they will go through a tube station, and they tend to have relatively few, easily controlled exits. Most tube stations have two or less. A few high profile tube stations occasionally have armed police presence. But I think the idea that face…

Last one was in 2017 though.

[deleted]

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#123

Post by dofm »

constantius wrote: post #120
dofm wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not at all suggest that UK ISPs proactively share anything with the state. What it means is the GDPR doesn't stop ISPs choosing to share when asked , rather than waiting for the warranted request that will come, as long as there is a lawful basis. Again: I don't really have a problem with that. If you've ever used a website that arranges work for lone workers (freelancers who do site visits, freelance estat…

I think your understanding of 'proactively' might just be different from parent's (and mine). I'd agree that entities that provide their users' data upon a simple request, and a carveout in regulations that allows (not forces) them to do so, fits the definition of proactive.

Let's not get all Humpty Dumpty here. "Upon request" is reactive by definition. "Proactive" sharing would quite literally mean sharing on one's own initiative.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#124

Post by kevincox »

spacebanana7 wrote: post #5

“Our deployments are intelligence-led and focused on identifying people wanted by the police or courts, including those suspected of serious offences and those who may be breaching bail conditions or court orders” This is crazy. Could easily be used to track protesters who went to the an event the police didn’t like.

This sentence struck me as well. It says what it is focused on, but nothing about what it actually captures.

What I would like to see is something like this:

- The detectors have a per-determined list of suspect faces and only record information when those faces are spotted.

- These detectors keep only a fixed length of recording that is permanently deleted unless it is actively linked to a crime and explicitly held as part of that investigation.

But it says nothing concrete. Just some nonsense about "focus" which doesn't mean anything.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#125

Post by dofm »

constantius wrote: post #121
dofm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of the UK "surveillance state" is actually quite overcooked. It's largely based on myth and dramatisation. BTP probably have a national live feed of railway station cameras. I bloody hope they do, considering it's a rather small, quite centralised police force that covers an enormous rail network, but they are known to have hired "super-recognisers" — skilled CCTV operators — instead. We have had generati…

> based on myth and dramatisation > We have had generations of terror threats to and attacks on our railway system, trains, railway stations I think your take might be based on myth and dramatisation too, as well as a misunderstanding of what the purpose of surveillance is (it's not about protecting children, or trains). And agree with sibling about Ireland: the Troubles would have been solved by getting the hell out…

> I think your take might be based on myth and dramatisation too,

You are arguing that terrorist attacks on public transport in the UK are mythical or dramatised?

> I invite you to check how the English government is reacting to independentist movements in Scotland and Ireland post-Brexit if you think they're happy to let people be.

This is just a very weird sentence to read; surprised it wasn't weird to write.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#127

Post by 023847292847 »

How thoughtful. This way the Metro Police know where to find you if some intimidation is due after you questioned the legitimacy of claims made by regime-aligned scholars such as Professor Jason Arday, Ph.D., who ran 600 miles in 6 days and 30 marathons in 35 days.

Such wrongthink can't go unpunished.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#128

Post by _heimdall »

dofm wrote: post #57
_heimdall wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be grounds for arresting someone at the tube stations? Is it illegal in the UK for police to believe you intend to go a certain area based on how you exit the tube?

It's not about grounds to arrest them, it's about practicality. If you need to arrest someone in London (someone who might be about to cause harm) then there's a very good chance they will go through a tube station, and they tend to have relatively few, easily controlled exits. Most tube stations have two or less. A few high profile tube stations occasionally have armed police presence. But I think the idea that face…

What do you mean by "need to arrest someone"? Would that be for someone who already committed a crime and has a warrant, or one who cops think may commit a crime in the future?

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#129

Post by codeduck »

Citizen_Lame wrote: post #119
codeduck wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right, mate, let's hear your plan for securing the UK's south-eastern coastline.

Sharks and tornados, and imagine if we can combine them!

Bad news, budget cuts mean we can afford a flounder with a paper fan. His name's Steven and he lives about twenty yards east of Lulworth Cover, but we reckon he's okay to commute to work.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#130

Post by foldr »

notRobot wrote: post #27
foldr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that work? Easiest way to stop protests is to block off the area of the planned protest and arrest people who try to enter it. It’s not clear to me how facial recognition on the tube would help from a practical point or view. Also, this seems to just be a trial expanding existing time and location scoped deployments of live facial recognition into a new environment, rather than a trial run for always-on liv…

Identify attendees and key figures from social media → pick them up when detected on public transport. The real issue is not (just) this specific use case, rather it's the govt generally knowing where people are going and where they have historically been.

Why wait till they’re on public transport if you’re going to arrest them before they even arrive at the protest?
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