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The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

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Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#121

Post by breezybottom »

losvedir wrote: post #87
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

It's quite striking to note how media coverage of climate change and pollution have gone down so much. I remember in the 90's it was very much in the popular mileu. What's more we are living through an actual green revolution. Solar power and batteries have never been so cheap - and still promising to get cheaper and better with sodium ion batteries.

Well "climate change" as understood today wasn't really talked about much in the 90s, as I remember it. Some broad, apocalyptic concern about creeping temperatures and knock on effects over many decades. But I do remember quite a bit about "pollution" and like general acute environmental issues. Smog in LA, the hole in the ozone, etc. Those were both more understandable and visible to your average person and more tra…

You do realize some of us were alive in the 1990's? That's a really odd thing to lie about.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#122

Post by hnaccount19293 »

fsflover wrote: post #119
hnaccount19293 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many cases, it's all three.

But not equally.

In some cases it might be and others it might not. In many cases that's going to be extremely hard to measure and equality might not even be desirable.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#123

Post by FeloniousHam »

inigyou wrote: post #3
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

It's quite striking to note how media coverage of climate change and pollution have gone down so much. I remember in the 90's it was very much in the popular mileu. What's more we are living through an actual green revolution. Solar power and batteries have never been so cheap - and still promising to get cheaper and better with sodium ion batteries.

In the 90s it was something to deal with later. Now that it's something to deal with right now, of course they won't cover it. In a few decades they'll cover it again, but only to say how it's too late now. Another factor is that rich oil and gas people figured out they could just buy the media.

> Another factor is that rich oil and gas people figured out they could just buy the media.

Who is this "media"? Is this the same "media" that Trump and his dullards claim is so corrupt and contrary to The Truth? Are you influenced by this "media"? I don't read The Guardian or Jacobin, but I'm occasionally exposed to their headlines and they are certainly reporting on climate change. Are they part of the "media"?

There is no monoculture "media" and to the extent there is, it is (in the US at least) overwhelmingly left-leaning. And ironically, when there were fewer outlets for information, those outlets (because they served such a large and diverse audience) hewed to a common sense/conventional wisdom understanding of the facts.

No is one controlling media. Maybe the CCP through TikTok steering.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#124

Post by jaybrendansmith »

lukeify wrote: post #6

At this point I’m not sure what to do about it. I already live a low-ish carbon life. I barely ever fly. Only drive when I need to. Try and use items that are non-plastic where feasible. I don’t buy extra clothes. It’s at the point where I wish it were solvable, but I don’t believe it is, so I can’t afford to think about it. Maybe people better than me can, and good luck to them.

Stop voting for Republicans. That's a good start.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#125

Post by constantius »

ghusto wrote: post #109

> This particular sub-genus of grifts, half-truths and strategic omissions ... “Manifest Destiny.” “Aryan superiority.” “The divine right of kings.” “The domino theory.” “Israel has a right to defend itself.” aaaand, you lost me.

Thanks for quoting, I wasn't going to read the article, but now I realise the author is obviously onto something and I'd do well to read him.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#126

Post by lioeters »

qsera wrote: post #100
mnewme wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad to see how many climate sceptics are even on HN

Yea, it is as if some people can still think on their own...

The best kind of propaganda is when people believe they're "thinking on their own" while repeating some convenient lie to keep the grift going. If you think that doesn't apply to you, then it's working as designed.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#127

Post by stahtops »

rapnie wrote: post #57
specproc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not at all about individual action. This scale of problem requires policy intervention and investment at national levels, and inter-governmental coordination internationally. The big, meaningful wins come from things like stopping the use of coal, not signing-off on new oil and gas exploration, tax-incentives and disincentives, grid work, fining polluters. We instinctively frame this as an individual problem, th…

> It's not at all about individual action. This scale of problem requires policy intervention and investment at national levels, and inter-governmental coordination internationally. It is all about individual action. And then the emergence from that to what amounts to the multi-pronged solutions that are needed to address a wicked problem. Like create the "big meaningful wins" you mention. There is no mailbox where y…

Individual action definitely doesn't hurt, but it is not enough.

You and all your friends could install solar and batteries and drive EVs and all the energy consumption for your house, cooking, and travel could be totally green and renewable. That's great! But in the US in 2025, 63% of energy consumption is commercial+industrial [1].

National policies need to be set to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and deforestation through clean alternatives, subsidies, regulation, and probably treaties. If you can make green cheaper and/or a better product functionally, you don't have to convince people.

  [1] 
  [2] 
  [3]

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#128

Post by arrrg »

amulyabaral wrote: post #16
arrrg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s pointless. Political change is needed to achieve any of this. Changing your individual behavior or even the individual behavior of everyone you know – while certainly not wrong! – won’t solve this. This is like trying to abolish slavery in 19th century US by not owning slaves and trying your very best to not buy anything that involves slave labor … laudable, but not a way to abolish slavery.

Isn't political change brought about by collective changes in behaviors of an individual and of those around them?

I think that’s an interesting point and one I did actually think about while writing my comment but ultimately didn’t address.

The interaction between individual behavior changes and political changes is interesting and to my mind where lots of interesting stuff happens. I’m not 100% convinced that politics is always downstream from culture and culture is downstream from individual behavior changes but I do agree that there is an interesting interaction happening that’s worth looking at and addressing.

The abolitionist in isolation certainly will not be able to abolish slavery, however their individual behavior might contribute to an atmosphere where slavery is ostracized and seen as more obviously evil by more people, thus making it easier for politicians to make political decisions that ultimately lead to the abolition of slavery.

I think that is why it is always so important for me to point out that it is certainly never wrong to individually behave in a way the limits your own individual contribution to climate change. I mostly have a problem when that‘s the end or even the main focus of it. Climate protection to my mind is most effective when it is tightly coupled to clear political demands. Too often individual behavior changes are used as action terminators. My impression is that individual action is often presented (as here) as a complete solution to climate change when it is anything but.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#129

Post by arrrg »

nDRDY wrote: post #36
arrrg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting temperature change by every additional 0.1°C is still worthwhile from a human welfare perspective. In that sense it is never to late. We can always do something to limit the damage. It’s just that it gets harder and harder and some damage becomes irreversible at a certain point. Had we done more 25 years ago it would all have been cheaper, easier and led to less damage overall. That doesn’t mean doing someth…

I suppose millions can die in slightly more comfort.

Millions fewer people will die. That’s the difference.

It’s just a sliding death scale, not a binary one. Sure, there might be steps, it might not all be linear, but still: doesn’t mean at some point doing something is pointless.

Re: The Gargantuan Lie That Is Collapsing the Climate

#130

Post by chneu »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

It's quite striking to note how media coverage of climate change and pollution have gone down so much. I remember in the 90's it was very much in the popular mileu. What's more we are living through an actual green revolution. Solar power and batteries have never been so cheap - and still promising to get cheaper and better with sodium ion batteries.

Its because society has decided that anyone talking about climate change is rude

It isnt nice to talk about climate change because it's become extremely obvious that blaming the rich and the government is not working. The responsibility lies on the 8 billion individuals making excuses.

So the news isn't really covering it anymore because PEOPLE COMPLAIN.

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