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We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

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Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#121

[flagged]

What do you mean by ‘obscured’ here? Bluesky users can voluntarily sign up to blocklists (as could Twitter users before Melon broke the API, though they were never a first class feature there). But they’re not _mandatory_? Like, if you want to consume tedious transphobic ‘jokes’ on bsky, you can. Personally, I’m kind of bored of their one joke, and opt not to.

As a brand new user, I see a banner covering the posts. I didn't opt in to any list or moderation settings. Yet, some posts are hidden from my sight and I have to explicitly opt in to see them.

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#122
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question was in good faith tbh; I see other protocols (Mastodon, nostr) not being really commercially relevant but being much more politically diverse than bsky. I was wondering why is that - is something inherent to the protocol (e.g. I heard that it's extremely hard to set up your "alternative bsky" if you don't have resources, unlike Mastodon instances, so you're not really incentivized to just do it and see ho…

The left-leaning vibe is a historical accident reinforced by user-managed moderation. Bluesky came at the right moment to pick up lots of people fleeing Twitter after Musk's overbearing edgelord enshittification of Twitter. Now, Bluesky's robust moderation tools allow users to subscribe to user-curated block lists. Users are empowered to decide they don't want to hear certain viewpoints. You don't want to see cat vid…

As a brand new user, I see a lot of posts obscured by moderation. What I'm saying is that bsky is not only block lists: there's moderation applied without opting in to it, right off the bat. I created a new user just to try it, I went to the Babylon Bee's bsky account and all its posts are covered by a banner right out of the box.

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#123
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left-leaning vibe is a historical accident reinforced by user-managed moderation. Bluesky came at the right moment to pick up lots of people fleeing Twitter after Musk's overbearing edgelord enshittification of Twitter. Now, Bluesky's robust moderation tools allow users to subscribe to user-curated block lists. Users are empowered to decide they don't want to hear certain viewpoints. You don't want to see cat vid…

As a brand new user, I see a lot of posts obscured by moderation. What I'm saying is that bsky is not only block lists: there's moderation applied without opting in to it, right off the bat. I created a new user just to try it, I went to the Babylon Bee's bsky account and all its posts are covered by a banner right out of the box.

There's two things going on here.

On the one hand there's the Bluesky moderation service. By default if you use the official Bluesky apps/bsky.app experience (the Bluesky AppView) you are automatically subscribed to moderation decisions by the official moderation service.

On the other hand, you have user-led behavior. One of them is blocklists. There are large blocklists run by individuals or groups that try to keep track of right leaning accounts that many users subscribe to in order to shut those voices out. As is easily observed, there's lots of conflict as to why a given person ended up on the list. On top of that there's a general practice on the network where users pile onto perceived ideological opponents by hate posting at them, occasionally with death threats. This ends up pushing away most of the right oriented users and continues to enforce ideological rigidity on Blueksy.

The asymmetrical social dynamics of the network are largely what create the ideological bias you observe. From what I can tell the core team's focus has been moving away from Blueksy and more to the ATProto layer itself. My thoughts are that Bluesky itself is probably a lost cause from an ideological melting pot perspective and that you'll need a new ATProto app for that, but this raises the question you asked, why not Mastodon? (The alternative could be to have the core team bring on some celebrities and pay them to post but due to the nature of the existing community I'm not sure that'll go super well.)

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I’m talking about identity I’m speaking strictly of the keys that sign your messages and the pub key derived from it. Me too. > I challenge you to prove the opposite. https://web.plc.directory/spec/v0.1/did-plc

Where are your rotation and signing keys stored? Who can access them? Talking here about the majority case.

> Where are your rotation and signing keys stored? Who can acccess them?

This uses public key cryptography, so there's multiple answers here. Let's start at the beginning:

atproto uses DIDs as its identity standard: http://w3.org/TR/did-1.0/

Here is my DID, we'll use this as an example: did:plc:3danwc67lo7obz2fmdg6jxcr

There are three parts, separated by colons: The scheme (did), the method (plc), and the DID method-specific identifier (3danwc67lo7obz2fmdg6jxcr).

To use a DID, such as did:plc:3danwc67lo7obz2fmdg6jxcr, you resolve it into a DID Document https://www.w3.org/TR/did-1.0/#dfn-did-documents

> A set of data describing the DID subject, including mechanisms, such as cryptographic public keys, that the DID subject or a DID delegate can use to authenticate itself and prove its association with the DID.

That document contains various properties that describe the identity: https://www.w3.org/TR/did-1.0/#core-properties

One of those properties is the "verification method", which tells you what to do to verify the identity. So you just do whatever is in that, and that gives you the identity. In other words, the broadest part of the spec is very pluggable, it does not describe the answer to your question in all cases.

So let's get more specific: One kind of DID, and the one that's used by virtually all of atproto users, is DID:PLC. As you can see from my DID above, I'm using the PLC method for my DID.

Its specification is what I linked you to above, https://web.plc.directory/spec/v0.1/did-plc.

You can see my specific entry here, for example: https://plc.directory/did:plc:3danwc67lo7obz2fmdg6jxcr

(Note that, before we get into any other part of it, this document points at my PDS, https://morel.us-east.host.bsky.network . So already, without going further, this is why your original comment is wrong: my identity points at my PDS, my PDS does not point at my identity.)

This specifies what goes into the "verification method" of a DID document that uses this method. In this case, if you look at mine, you'll see that it points (eventually) to https://www.w3.org/TR/cid-1.0/, which is what the Multikey stuff is about. From that spec:

> Controlled identifier documents identify a subject and provide verification methods that express public cryptographic material, such as public keys, for verifying proofs created on behalf of the subject for specific purposes, such as authentication, attestation, key agreement (for encryption), and capability invocation and delegation. Controlled identifier documents also list service endpoints related to an identifier; for example, from which to request additional information for verification.

This is already getting deep in the weeds, but the point is that the publicKeyMultibase is the encoded form of the public key that controls my identity. So that's where that lives. What about its associated private key? Well, it can be anywhere! From an identity perspective, the location of the private key doesn't matter. Only that whoever has that key produces information under that identity, when signed.

So let's talk in practice: when you sign up for Bluesky, they store the private key for you. This way, for users that don't care about any of these details, they do not have to think about it at all. It's saved with the rest of your account data, you don't have to worry about backups or anything.

However, at any time, any user can register a rotation key with the PLC directory. To do this, you generate a new public and private key, and then store that private key wherever you'd like. All the usual caveats here apply. You can then use your existing private key to add this new public key to your account. Once you do that, it shows up in your DID document as a rotation key. You can use that rotation key to add more keys, remove the Bluesky owned keypair, whatever you want. Now it's not stored by Bluesky.

The majority of users have not done this, it's true. But they can. Whenever they'd like.

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also quickly banned from participating in my local sub. It is a shame that the local subs are the ones that are the most over moderated- they are effectively isolating those in the community that don't have an "acceptable" viewpoint on any given topic

> the local subs are the ones that are the most over moderated The local subs are by nature ghost towns, and the first people to get them rolling will often establish some weird culture that will never be uprooted. I disagree, though. The most over-moderated are any having to do with any product or service (especially particular websites or pieces of hardware or software), liberal-left subs, or subs related to any in…

Go take a gander at the sub for the most conservative leaning town you can think of. You will be surprised at how busy and “organically” left leaning it is.

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#126
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is part of my (1). This is Bluesky specific. This is also repeated in your link.

Yes, it is specific to Bluesky. It is not dependent on the official app, though: Both the app and the website are subject to this kind of censorship. There seem to be loopholes [1] through some third-party apps, but that does not change much about the overall problem. Defaults matter a lot. I have a hard time understanding why the Bluesky authors came up with an idea like that in the first place. Not to mention actua…

Neither "the app" nor "the website" (they're the same thing) are the protocol, which is what matters.

Other applications using the protocol is not "a loophole," it's how protocols work.

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#128
post #113

I'm left wondering if maybe all the years I spend tinkering with Linux servers and self-hosted infrastructure are just about to pay off big time now that there is a massive move for governments and institutions to take control of their infrastructure... You still pretty much need a human to spin and maintain infrastructure, wire things securely, and monitor... Now I just need to wait until someone rebrands sysop into…

I got hired by a local company exactly for my experience with running linux servers at home and in a semi-professional capacity. They had hired someone with perfect credentials from university with several masters degrees, but they had to let him go after half a year because he did not fit in to their linux environment that has been operating since the 90s. I had no formal education, but many years with tinkering, se…

[deleted]

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Few years ago, I replied to a comment asking if a crime in a news story was punishable by death. I replied that yes, the law allowed the death penalty and linked the law in the state where the crime happened. (I also added a parenthetical that I oppose the death penalty.) I got a two week ban for inciting violence. I imagine some automod type of tool flagged my comment, no human could have been stupid eno…

Yeah sometimes they ban for suggesting someone deserves the death penalty. Meanwhile Luigi Mangione threads…

I wasn't even suggesting that. I was simply answering a yes/no question about what the law says.

Re: We moved our Bluesky data to Eurosky

#130
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is specific to Bluesky. It is not dependent on the official app, though: Both the app and the website are subject to this kind of censorship. There seem to be loopholes [1] through some third-party apps, but that does not change much about the overall problem. Defaults matter a lot. I have a hard time understanding why the Bluesky authors came up with an idea like that in the first place. Not to mention actua…

Neither "the app" nor "the website" (they're the same thing) are the protocol, which is what matters. Other applications using the protocol is not "a loophole," it's how protocols work.

I'm not sure if this is some kind of tactic, but both of these claims seem trivially wrong.

Bluesky is available in both main app stores and on the web. There is no merit in denying this. There are often differences in content restrictions between what app stores enforce and what service providers enable, but one cannot really say, "Just don't use the app," if by "app" they mean every common way of accessing the service.

Also, I think the protocol does not matter much if the user experience of almost every user is entirely controlled by a single provider. In such a case, the protocol might as well be entirely absent.

It is difficult to tell whether there is some substance here, since you do not explain (or source) anything.

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