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Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

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Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#121

Post by skeledrew »

plandis wrote: post #70
vrganj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fundamentally different definition of how laws are supposed to work. EU law isn't a list of checkboxes that you can technically check while going counter to the spirit, it is a philosophical direction, the details of following it are up to you. The spirit matters, not the letter. > When interpreting EU law, the CJEU pays particular attention to the aim and purpose of EU law (teleological interpretation), ra…

If I was a business owner I’d rather operate under laws that don’t have highly ambiguous definitions of terms that introduces extra risk that is unnecessary in other places.

There's really only a risk for those trying to walk a line so they can actually get around the purpose of those laws while seemingly still being in compliance. For those with no round about intent, the "ambiguous definitions" are perfectly fine.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#122

Post by agilob »

ben_w wrote: post #56
agilob wrote: post #34

US can simply ban export of AI tools and wieghts like they did with PGP. Austria should start using Mistral or open models.

Yes, but the highest levels of the US government… are not currently the best and the brightest, so they may well implement a ban after they've been exported or remove a ban in exchange for a shiny golden bauble.

Or start a war for developing own weights /s

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#123

Post by sajithdilshan »

impossiblefork wrote: post #113
tough wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I agree, I'd only wish there's some way for do this by the book, like its not so hard, Brasil government has produced almost SOTA models, why cant the UE figure shit out? They could even rent hw like everyone else to do the first trainings... But no, lets make this a 10B deal who someone will suck out 1B out of it even before its shipped

I think the way to do it is this: let EU chip design firms bid. They say what their systems can do, they give their prices, and then we choose the one that can achieve the requirements (pretrain multiple 10T+ models in a reasonable amount of time and then do RL on them) at the lowest cost.

There has to be a deadline and also a penalty if they don’t deliver. That way the company cannot just take the money and pocket it and just say oops, we failed

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#124

Post by impossiblefork »

sometimelurker wrote: post #118
impossiblefork wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but what does that affect? If we end up with a world where only US firms can use the latest LLMs and the latest LLMs are needed to keep up in the software world, or in making prototypes, then that's a whole series of fields which are blocked from us. So I think we need to make sure that we no only can, but build frontier LLMs from scratch-- not RLed on foreign data, but genuinely from scratch. Even from an econo…

asml is part of the chip supply chain; amsl has chip making talent, and EU needs more better chips to make more better ai also an em-dash and genuinely in the same sentence? cmon bro how much claude have you been using?

A lot actually. Obviously not to write these comments, but a whole lot of Claude.

With regard to the substance: sales of ASML machines are not currently connected to the EU getting chips, but to ASML getting paid for their work. For EU chips for training transformer models we'll need chip design firms, not chipmaking, and as I stated in my comment, there are some promising ones that will probably be able to design the chips we need if we order them.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#125

Post by sajithdilshan »

sometimelurker wrote: post #117
sajithdilshan wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big question is who is going to fund it? Is it tax payers money? If so how can they guarantee it’s not going to be another waste and corrupted disaster. Also EU is already late to the AI race and by the time the lawmakers starts to think about this, it would be game over

> The big question is who is going to fund it? this feels like a small question, the money needed for this isn't that much (probably ~20b) and every country needs cyberwarfare abilities, especially automatable ones, so the military can pay for it. And its not like 10T models cant be used for anything else, so people who want ROI in health, chip development, all sorts of stuff

That’s assuming everything would be in time and no budget overflows which is never the case in public funded projects.

I can give you one concrete example. Google for Stuttgart 21. It’s a project to build a main train station in Stuttgart, Germany. The project has been delaying for years. By the time it’s finished it would be 12.5 years overdue its original deadline and so far it has costed 14.5 Billion euros.

One could assume that the biggest economy in Europe can build a train station in no time because how hard could it be? Given the fact that they can’t even do that, I can imagine how it would go with publicly funded cutting edge technological AI endeavour. Even if EU has billions of euros to burn, what they don’t have is time.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#126

Post by graemep »

khurs wrote: post #120
graemep wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes it even more difficult to limit access to Americans. Deepmind was originally a British company and has R & D in multiple countries to it will be even more awkward with them. I have always thought the UK was too liberal in allowing foreign takeovers of key businesses. Arm and Deepmind are great examples of why.

Deepmind I can undertand, as it was early days and no guarantee of success? and they needed massive investment. But the decision to allow Arm to be sold was surprising. But UK sells nearly everything - we need ongoing foreign investment.

> Deepmind I can undertand, as it was early days and no guarantee of success?

Its companies with no guarantee of success that are the future innovators. Look at how important Deepmind's field has become.

> But UK sells nearly everything - we need ongoing foreign investment.

and then we complain about the resulting trade deficit! You cannot have both - it literally does not add up.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#127

Post by flowerthoughts »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #108
tancop wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nextbit in spain is hosting deepseek but its the most expensive provider on openrouter. inceptron in sweden for glm and nebius in the netherlands hosting smaller models like nemotron. mistral hosting their own models obviously. its not a big market. the problem is big chunks of europe have expensive power and insane red tape for building data centers (or anything else really). i think france is the best option with c…

Is it only Norway that has abundant, cheap and renewable hydro-power?

North of Sweden too, from the same mountains.

Switzerland could probably extend their hydro if they wanted to, but it's NIMBY rich. Wind and solar has stalled, though there's plenty of both in the Alps.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#128

Post by ben_w »

agilob wrote: post #122
ben_w wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the highest levels of the US government… are not currently the best and the brightest, so they may well implement a ban after they've been exported or remove a ban in exchange for a shiny golden bauble.

Or start a war for developing own weights /s

I wouldn't put it past them, and I'm saying that without an /s

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#129

Post by Y-bar »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #99
Y-bar wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Past couple of decades, how many exactly? I mean Apple (48), Microsoft (51), Amazon (32), Nvidia (33), Oracle (49), Adobe (44), Cisco (42), Intel (58), Google (28) aren’t exactly young. With the exception of Tesla (23) and Meta (22), USA is not brimming with large new tech companies from the past decades either. I mean King, Spotify, and Klarna are not trillion dollar companies. But at least they are younger than Goo…

American companies at around Spotify's market cap include Palantir (23), CrowdStrike (15), AppLovin (14), Uber (17), ServiceNow (22), Robinhood (13), AirBNB (18), Snowflake (13).

CrowdStrike (15)

EU equal of similar age and employment: SAP (31) or Darktrace (13)

AppLovin (14)

EU equal of similar age and employment: Delivery Hero (15), Infineon (27) or Evolution (20)

Uber (17)

EU equal of similar age and employment: Klarna (20) or Bolt (12)

ServiceNow (22)

EU equal of similar age and employment: Mistral (2)

Robinhood (13)

EU equal of similar age and employment: Revolut (10) or eToro (19)

AirBNB (18)

EU equal of similar age and employment: Booking.com (30), Amadeus (29)

Snowflake (13)

EU equal of similar age and employment: OVHcloud (26), Arm (29), or ASML (38)

Edit, okay those last ones are a bit old. But they are truly big and high technology.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#130

Post by sometimelurker »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #125
sometimelurker wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big question is who is going to fund it? this feels like a small question, the money needed for this isn't that much (probably ~20b) and every country needs cyberwarfare abilities, especially automatable ones, so the military can pay for it. And its not like 10T models cant be used for anything else, so people who want ROI in health, chip development, all sorts of stuff

That’s assuming everything would be in time and no budget overflows which is never the case in public funded projects. I can give you one concrete example. Google for Stuttgart 21. It’s a project to build a main train station in Stuttgart, Germany. The project has been delaying for years. By the time it’s finished it would be 12.5 years overdue its original deadline and so far it has costed 14.5 Billion euros. One co…

train stations are boring and no military spends time thinking about train stations. ASI hacker nonsense, that gets their attn.
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