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Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

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Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#121
No, it cannot. The fundamental problem between the US and EU it is that in the US if something is not explicitly forbidden, it is allowed and in the EU if it is not explicitly allowed it is forbidden.

You cannot have innovation at the speed and scale that you have in the US because the legislation is cumbersome and there is no unified market with the same rules.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#122
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfortunately the problem. The level of the public debate is abysmal, most politicians push unbelivably stupid shit about immigration and other identitarian nonsense, budget gets spent to ensure cheese and wine have the proper AOC certifications on them. Honestly up to a point I even understand it, many people don't see themselves as having a meaningful identity as EU citizens and you can't force it upon them…

reducing unskilled and hateful immigration is the democratic thing do this has nothing to the other good idea which is to start building AI

> reducing unskilled and hateful immigration is the democratic thing do

Hateful, sure, though just like all those on the right who say the first word of "hate crime" is redundant, I'd argue home-grown hate's just as dangerous as imported.

But "unskilled" immigration? When the topic is AI? If this stuff works as advertised, *nobody's skills matter any more*. If it doesn't at least render many of our skills obsolete, why build it? If you make an AI which can't automate anything, how is this not a waste of money?

Even without that, I've not seen anyone who knows about Baumol's cost disease opine either way about migration, high or low skilled.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#123

Does Europe need to train a frontier AI model, at all ? "Training a frontier AI model" is a euphemism. The AI industry is, at present, a disproportionately resource-intensive and exploitative activity which carries only an religious promise of making up for itself at some future date (note that the beliefs being touted to board members are different than the gospel spread to users). More accessible "non-frontier" mod…

I'm with you. I think we will need less "frontier" models in the future, but we'll reach for more specialized ones. A small, focused model trained to e.g. coding is within the realm of useful reality. JetBrains is making some moves in the field, and laudably, some of their work is open-weight.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#124
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that companies and States will use "usable" models from Mistral (who has left the race anyway), or frontiers/near frontier ? It's akin to say that walking a good enough means of transportation and we don't need anything else. One day the guys in charriots will remind you of the dire reality.

I am not denying Mistral is not top tier anymore, (except OCR and STT for speed/efficency) just that the AI Act is not the reason they are not. But we will see, they have very interesting Enterpise Use Cases, like with Mistral Forge. And YannLeCun decided to build in Europe as well

> And YannLeCun decided to build in Europe as well

AMI has offices across the world. Fact is, companies often have at least an office where the CEO lives. Same when Musk kicked up a stink about 'leaving California'. It wasn't really anything of substance.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your product can't function in a way that respects humans' right to privacy, your product is the problem, not the humans' rights.

You can grumble about the way things are but Europe being so far behind a technological race with important geopolitical ramifications means that you guys are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Have fun with zero of European regulations impacting frontier development and then eventually having to depend on it.

Europe lost religion and gained this instead.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#126

No, it cannot. The fundamental problem between the US and EU it is that in the US if something is not explicitly forbidden, it is allowed and in the EU if it is not explicitly allowed it is forbidden. You cannot have innovation at the speed and scale that you have in the US because the legislation is cumbersome and there is no unified market with the same rules.

It's not just that. The US models were trained partly due to massive theft. They illegally acquired (not used, that was legal) massive amounts of texts that they trained their model on. If you or me stole that much we would be in prison but if you're rich you get to do it and pay a small fine. It's not even the laws. It's in the US you're allowed to break the laws.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#127

No, it cannot. The fundamental problem between the US and EU it is that in the US if something is not explicitly forbidden, it is allowed and in the EU if it is not explicitly allowed it is forbidden. You cannot have innovation at the speed and scale that you have in the US because the legislation is cumbersome and there is no unified market with the same rules.

What? Your comment is 100% incorrect. In the EU everything is permitted unless explicitly forbidden.

Source: I am European.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but they are incompatible with being on the forefront of AI.

Yep. I wonder if being at the forefront of AI makes for a better & more free society.

Being on the backfoot will make us vulnerable to those who are not.

I do not understand how this can not be self evident.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#129
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the freedom is explicitly for the people, not Federal nor State government. States are relatively more free than the Federal government, but both are greatly restricted by the Constitution. Before the Constitution, the US had a previous government under the Articles of Confederation (see below) that had many deficiencies and only gave freedom to member States. The EU is organized more similar to the US und…

> In the US, the freedom is explicitly for the people, not Federal nor State government. I don't see how anyone can make this claim in 2026 and not expect to be laughed out of the room? In practice, freedom is for sale; it's not available to the people nor the citizens.

Normal in history. Change often isn't binary. Consider for example: the exact date of the end of the British empire is several possible dates between "the independence of Ireland in the immediate aftermath of WW1" and "it still hasn't".
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