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Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

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Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#121

Post by tehjoker »

I think what is being lost is that despite Google having lost its morals at various points, and Don't Be Evil being burried, this man's resignation does signal yet another dark turning point in the future of the Google organization.

They are now openly partnering with war industries and the government to assist them in doing things like bombing a school full of girls, killing hundreds in an entirely indefensible war of aggression.* This is a very dark red line to cross and despite Googlers being wealthy and privilaged, it is nonetheless a significant protest that deserves to be heard on its own terms. Ideally, a protest would change policy at the company.

Google management: Stop cooperating with the immoral and illegally operating War Department!

* I don't have evidence Google directly participated in the Minab school bombing, but this is the side they are supporting.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#123

Post by hintymad »

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard of the Yangzhou massacre or the Three Massacres of Jiading? Why would we let civilization succumb to barbarism?

Don't get me wrong. I hate war. And never-ending wars like the Iraq War anger me to no end (and for that matter, I think G.W. Bush and his cabinet were truly evil). Of course, the danger is real; a military built for defense can easily become an instrument of tyranny or empire if left unchecked. That is why we must maintain rigorous civilian oversight and strict checks and balances over its power. But that does not mean the military, by default, is always evil, right?

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#125

Post by tmoertel »

mempko wrote: post #96
JuniperMesos wrote: post #12

[flagged]

[flagged]

> James Damore was a poorly educated person. He didn't understand how to use statistics and decided to use them in a hateful way.

What statistical argument did Damore make?

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#126

Post by acdha »

ashleyn wrote: post #13
JuniperMesos wrote: post #12

[flagged]

Considering they rolled back DEI along with everyone else after Trump's second victory, it's difficult to view those previous "values" as anything other than cynical kissing-up to the previous holders of power.

You have to remember that most companies _chose_ to setup DEI programs: it was a routine recommendation from lawyers because it gave them a string defense in lawsuits — the next time some manager abuses their position, they can cut that person loose and point to their various programs as evidence that whatever happened was limited to that manager and not company culture.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#127

Post by DashAnimal »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #80
hiddencost wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really haven't ever encountered someone who believed in anything, have you?

I mean, it is quite obvious for years that Google is now classical immoral tech corporation, which now means current administration servant. They changed their code of conduct in 2018 along with they “Don’t be evil” to “Do the right thing” because world is not "black and white". This obvious shift into moral ambiguity with then changed code of conduct should signal the shift in policy. Eight years ago. Not even menti…

https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of...

"And remember... don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!"

Sorry this is one of those things that bugs me - but "don't be evil" was never removed from their code of conduct. It's placement was moved though from the start to the end, and you could argue whether it's less important because of that if you want.. but it is still there.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#128

Post by rayiner »

hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

It's because Americans and many Europeans under the shield of the U.S. military and have never in their lives felt a moment of fear about external threats.[1] They never have to meaningfully confront the central fact of their existence: that they enjoy a vastly disproportionate share of the world's bounty in a way that would be impossible without overwhelming military power. I suspect people living in say Ukraine don't talk like this.

[1] As I get older, I'm more sympathetic to Colonel Jessup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3igOkOk.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#129

Post by acdha »

snypher wrote: post #82
asadotzler wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your comment reads as _your_ pet issue showed up in 08, with no mention of it. So what was it?

They bought Doubleclick and turned into an ad company. They haven’t launched a good or popular product since.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#130

Post by pryce »

DashAnimal wrote: post #107
JuniperMesos wrote: post #12

[flagged]

I always hate the James Damore discussion because it's like the least interesting part. You have a company dealing with internal political mayhem trying to find the least disruptive, not only internally but now externally because this shit has leaked. It's a workplace, and youre trying to keep people effective and working. And some googlers got too comfortable with what they were sharing on a work machine, not just t…

100% agree. The James Damore flag was immediately taken up by major figures in transphobia (like Singal, Soh, etc) and pro-fascism campaigners (like Molyneux), both of which are political programs are absolutely incompatible with maintaining a non-hostile workplace environment for employees. (and not incidentally, both of which a premised on discredited bioessentialist pseudoscience)

I find it is a deeply cynical move, to be asked to place the James Damore "was it employer overreach-or-not?" episode in similar proportion to critiquing a company's actions regarding issues such as mass surveillance and/or assisting war efforts, especially when the accusations about those broader issues are tied to complicity in the 2020s resurgence in fascist politics. It is so cynical that I can't believe it isn't intentional.

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