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Lines of code got a better publicist

curlewis.co.nz

121–130 of 309 posts

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#121

The paradigm used to be create good enough abstractions you can express what you need in a few dozen lines or whatever. Those lines will be clearer and more precise than English for describing what it does. I wonder if we'll ever get back to that? If it's still relevant?

I think LLMs will make vertical slice architecture more common using less abstraction. If juniors are mostly relying on LLMs then they will accept the long files it generates and not have the opportunity to learn abstractions.

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#122
post #76

It is endlessly... amusing (?) to me, that we as a community spent decades trying to make it clear that our productivity is not easily measured because what we're doing is complicated and long running, only for AI to come along and suddenly LoC, Nx multipliers, tickets / week etc are held up as useful if not objective measurements. The reasons we rejected LoC and other measurements have not changed (broadly: code out…

The non-technical people are in charge and they're not tethered to reality in the same way that engineers are. Objective reality will win in the end, but that doesn't prevent damage being done in the short term.

IDK, I do think a lot of it is LLMs enable people who were not in our community to come into it (in an eternal september kind of way) and they are going through all this from first principals and ignoring their elders, but I've also seen technical people suddenly measuring themselves this way. The most optimistic read of this is that they _feel_ productive, and that feels nice, and they want to share how that feels, and so they are reaching for these garbage metrics because they have nothing else.

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#123
post #98

>The difference this time is pace: you could delay adopting “the cloud” for a couple of years and survive. With AI you might get a few months. I don't think so. Take a good company A (with a good product and a good pace of good features) of today. Take the extreme case they decide not to use AI at all. Well, they will still be shipping good features at their current pace. No amount of AI will make a bad company ship…

Yeah I think it also really depends on what your business is. Many or most of us here (and likely also the author) work in the kinds of tech-forward businesses where competition is fierce and velocity is essentially. But there are many many businesses, and also tons of public sector organizations, where this is not the case. Leadership in those organizations should probably be going a lot more slowly, waiting and seeing, letting all the fast movers fight it out through all this churn, and adopting only whatever eventually rises to the top.

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#124
post #82

> When a company says “AI made everyone more productive, so we need fewer people”, They are implicitly saying that as a company, they don't want to be more productive. They want the same productivity by paying fewer more productive people. Why is there an imbalance between what an employer gets paid for a unit of production and what an employee gets paid for a unit of production?

> Why is there an imbalance between what an employer gets paid for a unit of production and what an employee gets paid for a unit of production? Because labor gets exploited to make the owners richer. That's the basic fact, even though the owners (as a class) have financed a lot of propaganda to justify and obscure it.

> Because labor gets exploited to make the owners richer

Only a person who never tried to organize labor into a company could ever have such a couch-sitter opinion

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#125
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, few things of any number of LOC have as much utility as the Linux kernel, and it's also a particularly dense example of code. There's plenty of other examples that have higher LOC / utility ratio without being vibe coded. For example, Google's monorepo famously has 2 billion LOC, which is a statistic I've heard long before LLM coding took over.

Clarification: Google claimed to have 2 billion lines of code in their repo ten years ago, and a commit rate of 50,000 changelists per day, both on exponential growth trends.

That's a monorepo with hundreds if not thousands of different applications. It's not even close to an apples to apples comparison.

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unmaintainable if you have 1000 agents maintain it.

It is unmaintainable even if you spend 100k per month on tokens to have LLMs pretend they are maintaining it, if they slow down and make little ACTUAL progress. Sadly real progress is impossible to measure, if all you have is an overexcited """engineer""", a credit card, and so much cash spent you could hire all the best engineers you know and still have money for a porsche.

It's not unmaintainable if most of it is tests. Just have it write tests until it becomes safe for AI.

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#127
post #91

I think this is important: > When a company says “AI made everyone more productive, so we need fewer people”, I want to see the evidence - and I don’t believe it exists today. Show me that x% of your workforce is genuinely idle (or even just underutilised) because the work can now be done by fewer people. Even then: I’ve never seen a product/SaaS company that didn’t have an endless roadmap. If you got a free headcoun…

Yes, it's the "market" argument that I find compelling. That is, not jevons within firms, but rather across them.

Is it true that the evidence in tech so far is not encouraging? I was pretty worried about the job market a year or so ago, but it seems pretty good for experienced people at the moment, no? (I do have big concerns about the entry level pipeline though!)

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#128
I think a better metric these days is what percentage of code is not reviewed / understood by humans. That is the real bottleneck. Until we can stop looking at the code, AI barely matters - you are just trading quality for quantity.

Thats why it is so amazing for speed runs and prototypes. Here it is legitimately > 10X faster.

Re: Lines of code got a better publicist

#129

This weird trend reached an apex in a Feb 2026 OpenAI blog post [1], recently on the front page [2], which describes the process for building... something... written 100% by agents. There is no description of what the thing is, no indication of what value it provides its users. The closest it gets is "the product has been used by hundreds of users internally, including daily internal power users". But the fact that t…

The entire Linux kernel is about 40 million LoC, and only something like 16 million LoC after you remove drivers. I have a hard time imagining whatever OpenAI was talking about there having anywhere close to 6% as much utility as the Linux kernel, despite having 6% as many lines of code. And I have a hard time imagining it's anywhere close to maintainable, regardless of how powerful their LLMs might be.

The Linux kernel is not in any way at top of big projects. A kernel, as the name suggests, deals with specific issues and tries to remain small.

The world’s biggest software is usually built over endless adapters of different data and a need to reconcile endless edge cases with laws, regulations and real world complexities.

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