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B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

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Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#121

Post by progrock »

Evbn wrote: post #117
bad_user wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally know about it, that's why I rarely buy DRM-protected content in general and I only do so for content I only want to watch / read / hear once or twice. Good movies, good books, good music - these are things for which I want to keep a personal library and so I stay away from DRM. Unfortunately from what I've seen, the public has no idea what DRM is, as the technical details are hard to understand. When buy…

Jeff Bezos has said in interviews that he doesn't believe in books, only reading. Reading changes you, and you don't need to have an artifact. That was his argument for the Kindle.

Should charge by the word read perhaps? Though I'd get charged extra at night when I wrestle with the same paragraph repeatedly before passing out.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#122

Post by progrock »

chc wrote: post #100
boboblong wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The far bigger danger is that the eBook reader is a device running on integrated circuits and battery, which will break in only a couple of years and those B&N servers will not be online forever (I would be quite surprised if they are still online in 10 years), it's only a question of when that will happen." But you knew this when you bought the e-book. If companies were selling DRM-protected e-books but labeling th…

Not so. AFAIK none of the major ebook retailers go out of their way to mention this, and they target their marketing towards consumers who are not savvy enough to know to ask. They will only inform you of the DRM when you run into one of the limitations it imposes. EDIT: Actually, I should clarify. One ebook retailer does make this explicit — Google. But I wasn't counting them because they don't "own" a market segmen…

Good point. Not sure if it's still applicable, but wasn't it such that you couldn't carry your iTunes library over international borders?

If it's DRM'd then I'd expect to pay far less for it. I've got a Kindle, and I won't buy any books for it - because I feel so uneasy about where I stand on this. Which is a shame really. Add to that, that paper copies are somehow cheaper a lot of the time, and that I can pass /sell them on, after reading. Prevents me from becoming spineless.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#123

Post by tripzilch »

mikevm wrote: post #72
pilif wrote: post #2

As far as I understood the article, this is about a second download of a book purchased some time ago. I think in this case, it's not as clear-cut as the article makes it out to be. To stay with the real world analogy: while the article is right that nothing will glue the pages of a physical book together once the credit card expires, it is also the case that purchasing a book once doesn't entitle you to go to the bo…

Why do people always go back to analogies to physical objects/scenarios when discussing digital content? Obviously going back to a physical bookstore and demanding to get another copy of a book you lost is not something that anyone would do, but why is this so far fetched for an eBook? At least as long as that eBook is on sale (and on their servers), I don't see the ability of re-download being a major technical hurd…

> Why do people always go back to analogies to physical objects/scenarios when discussing digital content?

Because it's hilarious, just look at them! See it's exactly like when you try to fit many clowns into a tiny car, and you know you could fit in just one more, if only you could remove the steering wheel to make room. Except it's got a steering wheel lock. Now in a traditional car, one of the clowns would hand you the key, but with DRM, that clown is a robot and it's stuck behind all the other ones, just out of your reach.

See how that works? Now it's your turn. For instance you could try arguing my analogy is flawed because in the EU, most cars are even tinier.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#124

Post by DanBC »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #119
jcfiala wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 15 month old daughter has started being a little destructive to books as well.

So aside from fire, water, rodents, bugs and children, what could possibly happen to a physical book? Other than loss and theft of course.

Dust, and dust removal, and dust prevention, present risks to old books.

(http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/what-we-do/what-we-protect/c...)

(http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/servlet/file/store5/item3780...)

Some oppressive regimes will confiscate some books. I don't know what happens to that book afterwards.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#125

Post by Tyr42 »

winthrowe wrote: post #85
Dylan16807 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain in more detail? How could you owe steam money if you didn't finish the transaction? Did paypal somehow promise steam the money long enough to complete the transaction and then pull takesie-backsies?

That is typically exactly what is claimed by the victims, that paypal first completes, and then is later rescinded/charged back for whatever reason; steam then removes access to the account. I've heard a wide enough variety of paypal horror stories in general that I presume it's not all a case of user error.

Since the money was a gift to my brother, it wasn't tied to a bank account, which made paypal suspicious.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#126

Post by Tyr42 »

jeffool wrote: post #109
winthrowe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is typically exactly what is claimed by the victims, that paypal first completes, and then is later rescinded/charged back for whatever reason; steam then removes access to the account. I've heard a wide enough variety of paypal horror stories in general that I presume it's not all a case of user error.

This isn't a reply directly to you, Winthrowe. But more to this line of thread. The wrongs of Paypal have been mentioned, but most account blocking happens when a user violates Steam's TOS. Being an abusive jerk online while logged in and playing games. Or cheating. Now, I think that's bullshit. You still paid for those games. I think you should own them. Completely. At most they should block you from their servers a…

Steam was removing access to his account basically because it felt like he didn't pay for some games in it. Which is reasonableish (the ones he had from before really shouldn't be affected. It'd be better if it just removed the games he bought with paypal). It's like if someone has their check bounce on you, they don't get to keep whatever they paid for.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#127

Post by clarky07 »

rprasad wrote: post #112
clarky07 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is buying a kindle book and expecting to read it on nook?

I do. I use Calibre to remove DRM and convert. The Nook is a superior device for reading (though haven't compared it to the Paperwhite yet.)

so why don't you just buy from b&n?

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#128

Post by javajosh »

tolos wrote: post #99
batiudrami wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience is with ereaders is nearly the complete opposite of mine (putting DRM aside, like you). I love that I don't have to remember my page or use a bookmark, I love that I can change the font size, I love that I can select a word and get an instant definition for it, and I love how light it is to carry around and much more comfortable to read with. I prefer them over real books in every way (though, I'm fro…

Don't forget the ease of one-handed reading, and the ability to lay the e-reader down, e.g. to type out a passage. Neither of those are convenient at all with the books I read, unless I want to horribly mangle my book. Unlike GP, I prefer to keep my books pristine.

Yes, it is rather nice to lay the book perfectly flat on a surface. But I tend to read sitting on a couch rather than a chair, or laying in bed, and the Nook form factor is lovely but isn't as good as a book most of the time. Consider how a paperback sort of gently 'clamps' onto your thumb as you hold it, or, if you are lying on your side reading, the 'unread' side lies flat and the 'reading' side sticks up straight, perfectly. With the nook I have to balance the edge on the bed and it's not weighted down by 'unread' pages.

Maybe one day they'll release an e-reader which is more like a paperback book: cover art, hinged with two reading sides, some visual indicator of where you are in your current book, etc. More

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#129

Post by boboblong »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #76
boboblong wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is saying I cannot get my content back (content I PAID for) without a CC on file. You didn't pay for a book in the abstract. You paid for a DRM-protected file, and you got it.

No. Unlimited (non-abuse-level) downloads are part of the original understanding. There are services that give you a single copy of a file but they are rare.

I'm sure that maintaining your account is part of the original understanding too.

Just for the record, I think that anti-circumvention laws are absurd, and that EULAs aren't worth the RAM they consume. But I also think it's childish to buy a DRM-protected e-book from a company, terminate your account with that company, and then expect them to let you download another copy of the e-book for free.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#130

Post by snowwrestler »

w1ntermute wrote: post #21
pilif wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can strip off DRM from an ebook. It's as illegal as photocopying every page, but slightly less cumbersome to do.

Wrong. Photocopying for personal use is legal under fair use provisions. The only reason why it's not legal to do so with DRM-encumbered ebooks is because of the DMCA.

The DMCA forbids circumventing an encryption system. Photocopying the words on an ebood screen would not seem, to me, to be circumvention since the content was decrypted entirely as designed to put those words on the screen.

It might be copyright infringement, but would almost certainly be covered by fair use assuming it was not then distributed to others.

I've never heard of a DMCA case prosecuted against someone who photocopied the screen of a ebook reader. If you know of one, I'd be interested to read it.

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