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Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

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Re: Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

#121
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The abstract of the article says that folks who have remote work are more socially isolated, even after work hours. Maybe WFH allows folks to be more social with the people they want, but the abstract says that they socialise less overall, and are more socially isolated.

Most people live with a spouse , kids, room mates though, I live with my family and they are generally around so get plenty of company (too much sometimes). This is about living alone AND WFH, then yes might be good to go to the office.

> Most people live with a spouse , kids, room mates though

[citation needed]

Re: Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

#124
post #61
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Compare mental health of those with families in remote vs non-remote work and it might flip entirely. It is valuable though to point out that loneliness is a real issue and remote work could exacerbate that. For my part, being forced to sit in an open office with chatter all around me is much worse for my mental health than the peace and quiet of my own home.

I think trying to solve loneliness by combining it with the modern corporate environment is absolutely the wrong approach though. Get your socialization needs met in an environment where we ask all the people around you to rate your performance and determine whether your salary should continue to be paid.

Yup, agreed. I worked fully remote for a few years and never felt like I lacked social interaction. Apart from being married, I had some hobbies where I'd meet people and was fortunate to have a tight-knit group of friends who I'd meet up with for boardgames every few weeks.

It does take some work to get a solid social life going though.

Re: Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

#126
post #71

I don't understand how the research methodology used in the article supports this conclusion. How did they rule out the possibility that the post-pandemic economic situation has had a greater impact on these jobs, leading to greater stress? How did they we rule out that remote work has led to greater range of outsourcing, resulting in more intense competition for these jobs, rather than that caused by the lack of soc…

> How did they rule out the possibility that the post-pandemic economic situation has had a greater impact on these jobs, leading to greater stress? I only skimmed the paper, but I presume it is comparing remote workers to non-remote workers who also have gone through the same post-pandemic economic situation.

They use different industries to represent remote workers and non-remote workers. However the same economic situation can have very different effects on different industries.

Re: Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

#127
post #71

I don't understand how the research methodology used in the article supports this conclusion. How did they rule out the possibility that the post-pandemic economic situation has had a greater impact on these jobs, leading to greater stress? How did they we rule out that remote work has led to greater range of outsourcing, resulting in more intense competition for these jobs, rather than that caused by the lack of soc…

From the paper:

>Undoubtedly, there are potential alternative explanations for the differential deterioration in mental health among those in remotable jobs, such as the introduction of generative artificial intelligence (AI), political shifts, or lingering effects of the pandemic. Workers in AI-exposed occupations—which also tend to be more remotable—might plausibly show rising distress owing to job security concerns rather than remote work. To test this, we leveraged an AI occupational exposure index (21, 22). We found that the mental health effects load on remotability rather than AI exposure (table S20). Additionally, the time series changes in mental health coincide with the pandemic and not the rapid diffusion of AI following ChatGPT’s release in late 2022. Furthermore, we might expect the mental health effects of AI to be particularly large among those who recently lost their jobs, but instead we found more muted effects for the unemployed (fig. S5). Together, these findings suggest that remote work is a more plausible explanation for deteriorating mental health than generative AI during our study period.

not sure if that answers your question, but your question also seems kind of bad faith perfect v good rather than merits and rigor.

Re: Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

#129

This reminds me of growing up as a homeschooled kid and hearing people ask my parents "but how will they socialize?", generally while we were at the youth soccer field or at the playground or somewhere else that the irony should have caught their attention. Homeschooled kids can be isolated more because they don't have the forcing function of mandatory group settings, but often there are other opportunities available…

I wasn’t homeschooled but I have been working from home for good part of last two decades. And I have not felt any negative effects of it. In fact, it forced me to go out seek friends in local communities like meetups and various clubs. I have a feeling that people who feel isolated due to WFH would be same people who don’t interact with anyone in the offices as well.

I have a feeling that people who feel isolated due to WFH would be same people who don’t interact with anyone in the offices as well

i am experiencing this from a different angle. i am shy in certain situations so i don't easily socialize. what helps me is forced/formalized socialization, like pair programming. forced in the sense that i don't have to ask someone to make it happen. (although asking gets easier as i get older)

so what makes me feel isolated is working alone on a task. the fact that there are dozens of other people around me doesn't help much if i can't talk to them all day unless i need help.

working from home doesn't make things much worse. but, it allows me to avoid social isolation through other means. the advantage of going out to seek friends is that you can choose where to go, and you can go to places that are more open to interaction than the people at work. still i would prefer work where i have to cooperate with others, and not just work on my tasks alone.

Re: Home alone: Remote work, isolation, and mental health

#130
Do I really have to say "correlation is not causation" ? A lot of things happened between 2022 and 2024 to make people depressed. Particularly in 2024.

> those in remotable jobs spent an additional 1.1 waking hours alone relative to those in nonremotable jobs

Yeah, it's called commuting time, we don't have to do it when we're remote. That doesn't mean we need to go out and play football with that extra hour. We can also use it to relax.

> Moreover, remotable workers experienced a 1.0 pp (72.2%) relative increase in the share of days with no human contact: no idle chitchat with a barista, no hello from a co-worker, no smile from a passerby at the grocery store

If you're in traffic for an hour a day, you're not getting smiles from people at the grocery store either. You are however probably very frustrated with the traffic or annoying people on the bus.

> Mental distress rose precipitously for those who were in remotable jobs, for whom time alone ballooned. For those in nonremotable jobs, mental distress ticked up only marginally vis-à-vis preexisting trends

They're leading the witness by projecting that it's time alone that caused the additional mental distress (and no mention of other factors). They also completely skip over the fact that the remotable and non-remotable mental distress are now at parity. Everyone is miserable now, but apparently this is only noteworthy because we expect remote workers to be much happier? So, wait - remote work people were happier? And now they're not? They just proved it's not remote work at fault.

So I just asked Gemini to analyze the paper, and it found some big flaws:

- "We compared postpandemic changes in isolation and mental health for workers in jobs amenable to remote work (“remotable” jobs; for example, software engineering and marketing) to changes among people in nonremotable jobs (such as mechanical engineering and nursing)" - in other words, they did not actually check if anyone in these jobs was working remotely. They compared job categories. They did not compare remote workers to non-remote workers. This is an analysis of the depression of software developers vs the depression of mechanics.

- "During this exact window, the tech, finance, and corporate sectors experienced massive waves of layoffs, "efficiency" mandates, and economic anxiety. The increased mental distress measured in the "remotable" cohort could easily be a reaction to job insecurity and macroeconomic stressors rather than social isolation. Conversely, non-remotable workers (like healthcare and retail workers) experienced their most intense, traumatic burnout during the acute pandemic phase" - There were mass tech layoffs in 2022-2024, and those people who got laid off were more depressed.

- "Psychological literature draws a hard line between objective isolation (solitude/time spent alone) and subjective isolation (loneliness). Increased time spent alone does not uniformly equal distress. For many workers, particularly introverts or neurodivergent individuals, working alone reduces the overstimulation and distress caused by open-plan offices."* - Remote workers are more likely to be introverts, and introverts like alone time.

- "The post-2020 era saw a massive boom in the availability of telehealth psychiatry and therapy. Workers in "remotable" jobs are vastly more likely to have high-quality corporate health insurance and the daytime flexibility to attend a midday virtual therapy session." - A lot of us got BetterHelp access through our insurance and jobs after the pandemic, and this is partly why there was more use of mental health services.

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