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EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

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Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#121

Post by root-parent »

jimmydddd wrote: post #112
mminer237 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an attorney, I feel like vetting AI output takes longer than just doing it from scratch, let alone versus just using a traditional form. With AI, I have to read through everything, often explain why it's wrong, and then rewrite everything anyways. I mean, I get way more billables, but I think it's symptomatic of how AI loses its advantage of being quick and accessible to those who don't understand the subject matt…

Another attorney here. I understand your plight. But I can't believe law firms are sending out briefs and opinions without carefully checking all of the citations. I mean, even when Lexis or Westlaw identifies an (actual) case on point, you still have to check if the case has been overturned, whether it is truly on point, or if it can be distinuished from your case. So even if the cited case is not a halucination, so…

>> But I can't believe law firms are sending out briefs and opinions without carefully checking all of the citations.

Update your priors: https://www.damiencharlotin.com/hallucinations/

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#122

Post by jimnotgym »

busterarm wrote: post #47
jimnotgym wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Big Four have become a shadow of their former selves. They have become so risk averse that their advice is already incredibly generic and non-actionable. I think their audit work is in a downwards spiral. Audit has become so competitive that they are struggling to find ways to make it cheaper. They have become slaves to reducing the hours booked, and the rate of those hours. To do this they substitute less experi…

I worked at a top 5 hedge fund in the early 2000s. They had a large team of E&Y auditors onsite at all times that I worked somewhat closely with. Some things stuck out at me: - They were all in their early 20s. - They were all incredibly checked out. Honestly they still seem like an outlier to me decades later. - They partied hard. Yes, with drugs. - Most of them were in rotating intimate relationships with each othe…

I don't know about the partying, but they seem to work them very hard these days.

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#123

Post by torben-friis »

_puk wrote: post #12
ilamont wrote: post #8

The problem we're seeing across many professions is AI output is not getting vetted by knowledgeable people, whether it's an experienced analyst, senior engineer, expert attorney, or the resident physician. At best they skim, at worst they don't even see it at all before it's published, pushed to production, distributed to clients, or submitted to the court. In many cases the skills are available in house to do the n…

Part of the problem: you get given a complete document to review after it's been fully baked. I'm pushing the need for basic engineering principles across whole organisations. You wouldn't give an engineer 1000 lines of code to review without the original spec of what you're trying to achieve for context (at a minimum, ideally the reviewer was in the room when the work was introduced, and has full context). So, these…

So many people get buried in tech debt due to constantly choosing "let's be productive now and iterate later". Then later never comes.

This was already proof that, when a company is given the chance of getting a reward now and putting in the effort later, they will take the reward and postpone the effort indefinitely.

AI now offers "generate now, review later". Fill in the pattern.

We're cooked and it's not due to AI, it's due to the fundamentals of an economy and society that only sees the short term.

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#124

Post by jiveturkey »

> Instead of releasing our results all at once, we're going to focus on one report at a time. This approach both prevents individual examples being overlooked and allows us to illustrate the negative impacts of vibe citing on research quality and public trust.

Not to take away from the actually great reporting here, but what they mean is, This approach allows them to milk it for as many clicks as possible.

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#126

Post by roncesvalles »

ilamont wrote: post #8

The problem we're seeing across many professions is AI output is not getting vetted by knowledgeable people, whether it's an experienced analyst, senior engineer, expert attorney, or the resident physician. At best they skim, at worst they don't even see it at all before it's published, pushed to production, distributed to clients, or submitted to the court. In many cases the skills are available in house to do the n…

The problem is that a lot of employees across the corporate world are engaged in malicious compliance with regard to AI usage.

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#127

Post by sandworm101 »

ilamont wrote: post #8

The problem we're seeing across many professions is AI output is not getting vetted by knowledgeable people, whether it's an experienced analyst, senior engineer, expert attorney, or the resident physician. At best they skim, at worst they don't even see it at all before it's published, pushed to production, distributed to clients, or submitted to the court. In many cases the skills are available in house to do the n…

>> Amazon now having senior engineers vet generative AI output

Software and news are apples and oranges. The software engineer looks at AI code to spots errors and make/suggest corrections. But the software still exists. A doctor vetting a news article ("Owning a Boat Causes Cancer") isn't there to tweak language. The doctor's job is to stop the entire article. It would be like the amazon engineer deleting all the source code and telling the dev team to abandon the project. That will never be a popular task.

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#128

Post by uxhacker »

torben-friis wrote: post #123
_puk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem: you get given a complete document to review after it's been fully baked. I'm pushing the need for basic engineering principles across whole organisations. You wouldn't give an engineer 1000 lines of code to review without the original spec of what you're trying to achieve for context (at a minimum, ideally the reviewer was in the room when the work was introduced, and has full context). So, these…

So many people get buried in tech debt due to constantly choosing "let's be productive now and iterate later". Then later never comes. This was already proof that, when a company is given the chance of getting a reward now and putting in the effort later, they will take the reward and postpone the effort indefinitely. AI now offers "generate now, review later". Fill in the pattern. We're cooked and it's not due to AI…

Is VibeDebt a term yet?

Re: EY Canada published a cybersecurity report and most citations were hallucinated

#129

Post by [deleted] »

addandsubtract wrote: post #113
cwillu wrote: post #40

Is there any source with just the plain text? The css styling is headache inducing and reader mode doesn't work or has been defeated.

Firefox has a handy "Reader view" (Opt + CMD + R on Mac) that you can activate to get a stripped down view of just the text on the page. Unfortunately, it also removes the images which contain some of the sources they use.

[deleted]
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