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Social Animus

justine.lol

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Re: Social Animus

#121

Post by bastawhiz »

gbci wrote: post #114
esperent wrote: post #48

Someone else mentioned that her problems are more likely stemming from her involvement in the neoreactionary (alt-right) movement circa 2015. I've never heard of this and generally would say people should be given space to grow from things they said ten years ago... But... > The Dark Enlightenment, also called the Neo-Reactionary movement (abbreviated to NRx), is an anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian,[1] and reactiona…

Justine might have - or perhaps used to have, seeing as this was over a decade ago - political views that are unorthodox and unpopular in mainstream tech circles. I don't agree with these views myself. But shunning him forever for this seems wildly disproportionate. He is clearly a highly intelligent and highly accomplished individual, and an eloquent communicator. Indeed he is exactly the sort of person who organiza…

It's a bad take to suggest that organizations should look past a person's loud supportive positions on eugenics because they might give a good tech talk. If Justine is as controversial as this post suggests (and it doesn't even name the controversial views!) why on earth would any organization want to give them a platform?

"Because they're smart" isn't a good enough reason. I wouldn't want to listen to a podcast that hosts eugenicists. I wouldn't want to appear on a podcast that hosts eugenicists. Even if they didn't talk about their problematic beliefs on the podcast.

There's no shortage of smart folks that don't have a complicated reputation. Organizations like the Internet Archive simply don't have to host them. And frankly, it sounds like they gave her the opportunity to explain her beliefs, and she chose not to. In a way, that's worse: it says "I don't want to explain my beliefs, because they're going to make me look worse" or "I don't want to disavow my problematic beliefs because I don't want to alienate people who share(d) those beliefs".

Re: Social Animus

#122

Post by [deleted] »

gbci wrote: post #114
esperent wrote: post #48

Someone else mentioned that her problems are more likely stemming from her involvement in the neoreactionary (alt-right) movement circa 2015. I've never heard of this and generally would say people should be given space to grow from things they said ten years ago... But... > The Dark Enlightenment, also called the Neo-Reactionary movement (abbreviated to NRx), is an anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian,[1] and reactiona…

Justine might have - or perhaps used to have, seeing as this was over a decade ago - political views that are unorthodox and unpopular in mainstream tech circles. I don't agree with these views myself. But shunning him forever for this seems wildly disproportionate. He is clearly a highly intelligent and highly accomplished individual, and an eloquent communicator. Indeed he is exactly the sort of person who organiza…

[deleted]

Re: Social Animus

#123

Post by throawayonthe »

tancop wrote: post #80

putting aside the politics and asking for money i also found this: > I found a much easier answer for my own project, which has been to never accept anonymous contributions and to not merge a single line of code until the contributor sends an email promising to assign me copyright i understand the anonymous contributions part even if i dont agree but how does assigning copyright make it easier to fight toxic people?…

how does it differ from a cla, i'm missing something

Re: Social Animus

#124

Post by suburban_strike »

bastawhiz wrote: post #120
noitpmeder wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it really just speaks to the fact no one can stand working with her for a prolonged period of time.

Exactly. It doesn't matter how smart or talented you are if you have no soft skills. You can't treat employees as black boxes where business needs go in and business value comes out. Soft skills are the vehicle through which someone interfaces with the company, which is ultimately "just a bunch of people". You can isolate folks without soft skills to some extent to avoid them butting heads with other people, but at s…

[flagged]

Re: Social Animus

#125

Post by cindyllm »

suburban_strike wrote: post #124
bastawhiz wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It doesn't matter how smart or talented you are if you have no soft skills. You can't treat employees as black boxes where business needs go in and business value comes out. Soft skills are the vehicle through which someone interfaces with the company, which is ultimately "just a bunch of people". You can isolate folks without soft skills to some extent to avoid them butting heads with other people, but at s…

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Social Animus

#127

Post by camgunz »

palmotea wrote: post #119
camgunz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried pretty hard, but even the Wikipedia refs are just people (wildly) extrapolating from the petition. I'm not saying these aren't her beliefs, I'm just saying we don't have enough to know, definitely not enough to cancel her, which this thread feels like it's about.

I think to get what you asked you're going to have to directly read their social media and other writings for the last N years and form an impression, keeping in mind self-censorship doesn't mean a change in core beliefs. Following wikipedia refs isn't going to cut it. We're not talking about a public figure here, but an extremely online regular person/minor internet celebrity.

No, if people want to walk around calling someone some kind of fascist they need receipts. Anything else is repugnant Internet brigading that has no place on HN.

Re: Social Animus

#128

Post by andai »

gbci wrote: post #115
andai wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>telling Justine to be normal I think it's that same impulse that keeps getting her in trouble. It's not really an option, is it. You gotta work with reality rather than against it. It's okay to be who you are. And you'll have to accept that everyone's going to have their own reaction to that. Trying to appeal to people who hate you... well, just look around. Man, become who you are!

The root cause problem seems to be that people who are highly intolerant to others' views and perspectives that they happen to disagree with have become an outsized voice in tech circles. Shunning, blacklisting and publicly denouncing has become a toxic norm. Justine has expressed unorthodox views in the past but that's no reason to punish him forever, or indeed at all. To be as inclusive and tolerant as possible - t…

Used to be, on the internet nobody knows you're a dog. The identity was irrelevant, only contributions were important.

Now it's, on the internet, everyone knows you're Literally Hitler.

Re: Social Animus

#129

Post by bloody-crow »

righthand wrote: post #107

Maybe just stop using your public persona. Open a new account under a different name. You can still be jart if anyone needs you there but why hold a public persona that brings in hate? And if you think you get special treatment in certain communities then a new public identity can help diffuse some of the negative rhetoric. Ideally all you want the public to know about you is your accomplishments not anything else. G…

Maybe not the best advice to give to someone who's already has a history of having multiple online personas under different names and getting in trouble for that.

Re: Social Animus

#130

Post by komali2 »

gbci wrote: post #116
graemep wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also this person apparently went from being part of Occupy Wall Street to being "inspired by the political views of Curtis Yarvin" A lot of the far right are anti-globalisation as Occupy Wall Street was, both are a rejection of consensus politics, and people who tend to go to extremes are more likely to go to a different extreme than become moderate. There is also a type of brilliant person (and Justine is brillian…

I suspect that on some level, many of the people slating Justine feel threatened by his genius, and that is part of the reason why they keep bringing up the same tired old laundry list of perceived sins in an attempt to do so.

Did you make this account just to misgender her a couple times? You haven't posted before or since but are very careful to use the masculine pronoun to describe someone that uses the feminine pronoun in the only posts you've made.
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