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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#121

Post by AlexandrB »

wat10000 wrote: post #98
petcat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada would only have to patrol its southern Alberta border /s No coincidence that Albertans are sparking up the seceding issue again. When 10% of the population produces nearly 20% of the country's GDP it's a breeding ground for contempt. And it also seems like Albertans are the butt of a lot of jokes from the other Canadians anyway. I'm sure this US government would love to see an "independent" Alberta.

According to Wikipedia, Alberta accounts for 11.52% of the national population and 15.25% of the GDP. Such injustice.

That's not the injustice. The problem is that Alberta's political interests are very poorly (if at all) represented federally. This has come to a head a few times in the past with things like cancelled pipeline projects or the NEP[1]. So the issue is that Alberta has 11.52% of the population, contributes 15.25% of the GDP, yet must constantly fight against policies that put it at a disadvantage or run counter to its political leanings.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program

> Estimates have placed Alberta's losses between $50 billion and $100 billion because of the NEP.[32][33] Alberta still initially enjoyed an economic surplus due to high oil prices, but the surplus was heavily reduced by the NEP, which, in turn, stymied many of Lougheed's policies for economic diversification to reduce Alberta's dependence on the cyclical energy industry, such as the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund, and also left the province with an infrastructure deficit. In particular, the Alberta Heritage Fund was meant to save as much of the earnings during high oil prices to act as a "rainy day" cushion if oil prices collapsed because of the cyclical nature of the oil and gas industry.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#122

Post by vitally3643 »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #103
e40 wrote: post #97

Over the last few months we've seen announcements of shifts from US-based supply chains to non-US-supply chains. As an American, I think this is prudent, based on what has happened in the last year and change. The US is no longer a reliable partner and this is what you do when that happens. 100 years from now, the last 15 months will be written about in no uncertain terms: this administration has loaded many footguns…

Look around you. What products do you own with a US supply chain and what has a Chinese supply chain.

Do you have a point?

Saying that products with US based supply chains are rare does not somehow detract from the point of moving away from the ones that still exist.

And they do exist, just not for consumers, or at least not at a price most people are willing to pay.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#123

Post by jleyank »

yobbo wrote: post #47
llm_nerd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a larger partner speaking the same language and with a largely synonymous culture and a heavily integrated economy as our neighbour. The moment a Canadian company sees success -- in optics, autos, science, medicine, weaponry, etc. -- it is absorbed by a larger US company and suddenly is no longer Canadian, and in many cases any Canadian operations will usually get choked out. There are few examples where this…

> Sweden had nothing like this Not entirely true. AstraZeneca and ABB are examples that remain partly Swedish but many companies were merged into big multinationals and eventually marginalised.

FWIW, Ozempic, which seems popular, came from a Danish Pharma. There's very large pharma in Sweden, related to the UK.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#124

Post by [deleted] »

petcat wrote: post #59
mikeyouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada only has to patrol its northern border. At what point on this current trajectory in the US would that change... mostly facetiously, but not entirely..

Canada would only have to patrol its southern Alberta border /s No coincidence that Albertans are sparking up the seceding issue again. When 10% of the population produces nearly 20% of the country's GDP it's a breeding ground for contempt. And it also seems like Albertans are the butt of a lot of jokes from the other Canadians anyway. I'm sure this US government would love to see an "independent" Alberta.

[deleted]

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#126

Post by tracerbulletx »

joering2 wrote: post #50
kashunstva wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has historically relied on a relatively stable trading relationship with the U.S. That relationship is a shambles. It remains to be seen how Canada retools itself; I imagine that we will see a blend of on-shoring and new trading sources. So it’s less of an issue of “can’t” and more “hasn’t (yet)”.

Frankly to me the fact Canada is "retooling itself" knowing well that this nightmare should be over in less than 3 years, and most likely next President will be a Democrat, but yet they keep retooling, means their strong (reliable?) assumption is that Trump Administration won't leave the office at all, similar to how Putin stayed in power in what arguingly is a Democratic Country.

A lot of people are still in denial about Jan 6th. They really tried to overthrow the election like actually in physical effect. Not hypothetically. They were trying to not certify the election and it came down to a hairs width. They're going to try to again.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#127

Post by lambdasquirrel »

michaelscott wrote: post #8
toxik wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden does not have a car industry. The fighter jets are a different matter, very strong technical moat and need to prove the system in combat. You can't just start a fighter jet business.

It does with Volvo, although I couldn't say how big it is relative to global industry. Within Europe it's a large player

Volvo is complicated. Basically a lot of these smaller companies and countries realized there was no way they could make the economics work with the cost of electronics and software-related R&D being what they are. So they sold to larger players. But design and final assembly still happens in Gothenburg for high-end models that are typically destined for the EU market. The US now manufactures the SUVs.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#128

Post by bryanlarsen »

AlexandrB wrote: post #121
wat10000 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, Alberta accounts for 11.52% of the national population and 15.25% of the GDP. Such injustice.

That's not the injustice. The problem is that Alberta's political interests are very poorly (if at all) represented federally. This has come to a head a few times in the past with things like cancelled pipeline projects or the NEP[1]. So the issue is that Alberta has 11.52% of the population, contributes 15.25% of the GDP, yet must constantly fight against policies that put it at a disadvantage or run counter to its…

Cancelled pipeline projects? Ottawa doesn't cancel pipeline projects. All the problems with pipeline projects are caused by environmental reviews etc, which fall under legislation brought in by Stephen Harper, an Albertan.

It's much the opposite, Canada just spent $34B to ensure the Trans-Mountain pipeline got built. Alberta is the one that gets the resource revenue, but it's Ottawa that has to pay for your pipelines. That's hardly fair.

Alberta has one legitimate grievance, the NEP. Which is a plan that was cancelled by Mulroney over 40 years ago.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#129

Post by bigfatkitten »

daneel_w wrote: post #52
khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

> "Even if American equipment is superior ..." To address the article's context, is the E-3 Sentry superior to the Erieye/GlobalEye?

The E-3 is a dinosaur.

The E-7 Wedgetail is a vastly more capable platform than the Erieye/GlobalEye in pretty much every way, but costs four times as much, and there are other issues with Canada and Boeing as have been pointed out by another commenter.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#130

Post by AlexandrB »

lfuller wrote: post #102
AlexandrB wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only source of grief as a Canadian is the dismal state[1] of my country and the bleak prognosis for the future[2]. The whole "elbows up" thing is a convenient sideshow to take attention away from our domestic problems. [1] https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/05/apple-on-bill-c-22-this-... [2] https://www.bcbc.com/insight/oecd-predicts-canada-will-be-th...

While I completely agree with you on [1] and it's tiring to have to re-litigate this issue every few years, [2] was from 2021 and doesn't reflect Canada's current policies.

Canada's current policies seem like a continuation of their previous policies. The only major change is the weakening of links to the US, which is likely to make the economy worse, not better. Even bill C-22 is a zombie bill from the Trudea era (C-63). Tech investment is still flat (nearing zero)[1], taxes are up, and 20% of the workforce have government jobs[2]. This country is cooked.

[1] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-venture-cap...

[2] https://thehub.ca/2025/12/08/canada-added-950000-government-...

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