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Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

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Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sullivan absolutely establishes corporate rights. Otherwise, Trump could enact a ban on “fake news” and say it applies only to the corporation itself, not the staff. The staff can write whatever they want, but the corporation can’t use its printing presses, etc., to disseminate what the government considers fake news.

> Otherwise, Trump could enact a ban on “fake news” and say it applies only to the corporation itself, not the staff. That's some really tortured logic. Such an act would simply be a violation of the First Amendment (and Article I, for that matter). The corporate nature of its target is, again, entirely irrelevant. Sullivan sets a high standard for defamation claims by public figures. That's it. They protect you sayi…

> The corporate nature of its target is, again, entirely irrelevant.

Why? In New York Times v. Sullivan, the corporation was being sued for what it did. The New York Times reporter didn’t print and distribute all those newspapers. The corporation did that.

And what you’re calling “tortured logic” was in fact the government’s argument in Citizens United. It argued that it wasn’t regulating the filmmaker. It was regulating the corporation spending funds to make and distribute the film. So it sounds like we agree Citizens United was correctly decided!

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owner votes as themselves, and again as the corporate entity.

No. Per the ruling: > Where a voter is entitled to vote by virtue of being both a resident and as an owner of real property, that voter shall be entitled to only one vote; where a voter is entitled to vote by ownership of two or more parcels of real property, that voter shall be entitled to only one vote. However, that seems to get messy with multi-owner LLCs where you might give 1% of each LLC to a bunch of your bud…

1 person 1 vote does not mean in each city where they own property.

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should they have to choose between the benefits of the corporate structure and exercising the rights the municipality has given property owners? Why shouldn't they? They're trading one benefit for another. The individual house owners don't get all the benefits of an LLC for similar reasons.

> They're trading one benefit for another Why? What’s the logical basis for this idea that they should have to choose between these benefits?

What's the logical basis for this idea that LLCs should have more benefits than an individual homeowner but give up nothing in return?

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Per the ruling: > Where a voter is entitled to vote by virtue of being both a resident and as an owner of real property, that voter shall be entitled to only one vote; where a voter is entitled to vote by ownership of two or more parcels of real property, that voter shall be entitled to only one vote. However, that seems to get messy with multi-owner LLCs where you might give 1% of each LLC to a bunch of your bud…

1 person 1 vote does not mean in each city where they own property.

"One person, one vote" is clearly a per-race thing, or I'd violate it by voting for President and Senator at the same time.

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#125

> Visions of faceless large corporations or even HAL controlling a small town are frightening and the stuff of science fiction. Company towns are well-recorded history, not science fiction. Lost Hills California (home of Wonderful Pistachios) exists in the real, present, non-fictional world.

That does not make it not frightening nor not the stuff of science fiction. We know how awful corporate towns are that’s partly why cyberpunk is what it is.

Not always... Bentonville is actually pretty great: https://youtu.be/sIwslwoQUKY

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#126

To save everyone some trouble, "some Delaware elections" refers to elections in a town that amended its charter to explicitly allow legal entities to vote.

I have no problem with individual jurisdictions controlling how their domestic-chartered companies operate/speak/vote — particularly with the recent Hawai'ian example: [in attempts of] reversing Citizens United, by removing political speech from corporate entities. Bravo, Hawaii.

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#127
post #3

> Visions of faceless large corporations or even HAL controlling a small town are frightening and the stuff of science fiction The City of London and Hong Kong have half of the voting power held by corporations and City of London is older than any US state, and colony. And so are some of the guilds Universal suffrage at all, and exclusive to natural persons, is more science fiction than corporations voting

This seems disingenuous. The City of London and Hong Kong being "corporations". They're still nations. It's like Pennsylvania arguing that it's a Commonwealth and not a state. When people do not have equal representation under the law the people are not free. We call it authoritarianism.

Fascinating news for you is that nobody is saying any of those things.

I said, and factually, that voting power is held by corporations within those states, just like within this town in Delaware. Nothing to do with what you wrote about semantics of the state’s own incorporation reality or fiction

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 person 1 vote does not mean in each city where they own property.

"One person, one vote" is clearly a per-race thing, or I'd violate it by voting for President and Senator at the same time.

This did not refute what I said.

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, Trump could enact a ban on “fake news” and say it applies only to the corporation itself, not the staff. That's some really tortured logic. Such an act would simply be a violation of the First Amendment (and Article I, for that matter). The corporate nature of its target is, again, entirely irrelevant. Sullivan sets a high standard for defamation claims by public figures. That's it. They protect you sayi…

> The corporate nature of its target is, again, entirely irrelevant. Why? In New York Times v. Sullivan , the corporation was being sued for what it did . The New York Times reporter didn’t print and distribute all those newspapers. The corporation did that. And what you’re calling “tortured logic” was in fact the government’s argument in Citizens United. It argued that it wasn’t regulating the filmmaker. It was regu…

> In New York Times v. Sullivan, the corporation was being sued for what it did.

And its status as a corporation was irrelevant to the result. If it was @ceejayoz v. Sullivan, the ruling would've been the same.

> So it sounds like we agree Citizens United was correctly decided!

There's that torturing again. I believe CU illegitimately impacts the voting rights of American citizens.

Re: Corporations can vote in some Delaware elections, judge says

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One person, one vote" is clearly a per-race thing, or I'd violate it by voting for President and Senator at the same time.

This did not refute what I said.

You said:

> The owner votes as themselves, and again as the corporate entity.

Per the opinion, which I quoted above, this is not the case.

(I do think it gets instantly messy with multi-owner corporations, though.)

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