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That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

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Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#121

Post by protocolture »

autoexec wrote: post #114
protocolture wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. And yet I bet if I look there's actually a ton of regulation. >Chemical A is found to be cancerous Chemical A is assumed to be cancerous by the state of California, you mean?

> And yet I bet if I look there's actually a ton of regulation. I'll bet a ton of that regulation is insufficient, and/or paid for, or even written by, the industry to make it harder for competitors or to allow them to increase their profits by cutting corners. Regulation isn't some on/off switch that always makes things better or worse. What matters is what those regulations are and who they serve.

Yep and I bet if I reviewed every bit of it line by line I couldnt convince many people to remove any of it.

Because Regulation might not be an on/off switch but Deregulation is a complete hard no for most people.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#122

Post by thinking_cactus »

coryrc wrote: post #111
kenhwang wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking maybe have those chemicals sitting in a glass or temperature sensitive container inside the tank. So when there's too much pressure or heat, the container containing the neutralizing chemical is broken like a fuse and the chemical is automatically released.

Having the chemical in one location doesn't make it active all over, you need to disperse it. Like you need to shake glow-in-the-dark bracelets.

Well then... make a matrix of such fuse-containers? (say every 20cm or whatever) I guess manufacturing such a matrix would be pretty expensive though, you'd need to carefully automate its production I think. It would also definitely interfere with flow of fluid in the tank.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#123

Post by somat »

rockinghigh wrote: post #44
oceanplexian wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like these arguments are always framed as an evil corporation wants to take advantage of consumers. Except that's misdirection. The guilty party isn't the corporation, it's you, the consumer. And the corporations are already regulated. Heavily. You want Gore-Tex (expanded PTFE) boots, Cobalt EV batteries (Child labor in the DRC), Solar Panels (Open pit quartz mines), Wind Turbine Blades (Epoxy Resins & glass-l…

Consumers don't control zoning laws or risk mitigation details.

In a democracy they do, or at least that is the theory.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#124

Post by CalRobert »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #10
robocat wrote: post #4

Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? After a big earthquake you don't want to have to also deal with other emergencies (à la Fukushima). Aside: One good side-effect of the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake being so horrific is that it stopped the self-obsessed whinging in my city (Christchurch was still trying to recover from an earthquake).

> Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. There's a neutralizing chemical that could have been injected to stop the exothermic reaction in its tracks. They didn't have it on site. A "response team" (likely a contractor that responds to chemical emergencies) did, but by the time they sh…

Hell, it’s still amazing there was so little fallout after Bhopal.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#125

Post by jyounker »

lokar wrote: post #70
IcyWindows wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which "Other jurisdictions manage this"? I have lived in places with more rules, but that meant we just didn't do it. We eventually gave up.

I have read the rules are tighter in most EU nations. There is jurisdiction shopping of course. If china or wherever wants to have really lax rules, and that means production moves there, I’m not sure what the answer is. But, for this product (making plexiglass like things), I expect all the consumer production has gone overseas anyway. This is defense / aerospace, so it probably can’t move.

The answer is actually really easy, and it's been implemented successfully before: selective import taxes.

You set import taxes so that they offset price advantages. If a country has shitty environmental laws, crappy labor protections, etc. then you prices that into their import taxes. That way they don't gain any advantages in a race to the bottom based on things that you care about in your own country.

If a country adopts better environment laws, labor projections, etc. then you lower the import tariffs you charge on that country's relevant goods

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#126

Post by danbruc »

EA-3167 wrote: post #116
dboreham wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparent Aluminum

Oh we have that too, it's used as high end window armor in some armored vehicles, it's called AlON (Aluminum OxyNitride). It's amazing stuff.

Also [synthetic] sapphire [1] is just aluminium oxide.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#127

Post by joxdosba »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #10
robocat wrote: post #4

Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? After a big earthquake you don't want to have to also deal with other emergencies (à la Fukushima). Aside: One good side-effect of the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake being so horrific is that it stopped the self-obsessed whinging in my city (Christchurch was still trying to recover from an earthquake).

> Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. There's a neutralizing chemical that could have been injected to stop the exothermic reaction in its tracks. They didn't have it on site. A "response team" (likely a contractor that responds to chemical emergencies) did, but by the time they sh…

Complaining about the Chevy Cruze like that is hilarious. Did you go out of your way to pick up a particularly harmless example?

What about all the other cars that kill significantly more people by design? Like, I don’t know, any SUV or pickup truck? In that context, picking on the rather innocent Cruze seems a bit obtuse.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#129

Post by michaelmrose »

oceanplexian wrote: post #24
KennyBlanken wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. There's a neutralizing chemical that could have been injected to stop the exothermic reaction in its tracks. They didn't have it on site. A "response team" (likely a contractor that responds to chemical emergencies) did, but by the time they sh…

I feel like these arguments are always framed as an evil corporation wants to take advantage of consumers. Except that's misdirection. The guilty party isn't the corporation, it's you, the consumer. And the corporations are already regulated. Heavily. You want Gore-Tex (expanded PTFE) boots, Cobalt EV batteries (Child labor in the DRC), Solar Panels (Open pit quartz mines), Wind Turbine Blades (Epoxy Resins & glass-l…

It may well be quite valid in context to let a company or even an entire industry go bankrupt if the net negative is large enough and give zero fucks if the mitigation required is practical or affordable. It may also be valid from the perspective of one group of citizens to foist the cost and risk on another nations less organized or represented citizens in another nation. Unkind but we don't pay our lawmakers to represent our citizens and theirs equally.

The average person is dumber than a box of rocks and the ones that aren't have limited time, attention, and expertise. They can't be relied on to make practical decisions while shopping on amazon regarding the practical effects of their buying power. The only hope to have sane decision making is by subject matter experts which is why we are a nation of laws which basically say follow the rules set down by these unlected assholes who actually know because it is literally the only practical way forward in our nation of 338M stupid assholes.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#130

Post by GJim »

CalRobert wrote: post #124
KennyBlanken wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. There's a neutralizing chemical that could have been injected to stop the exothermic reaction in its tracks. They didn't have it on site. A "response team" (likely a contractor that responds to chemical emergencies) did, but by the time they sh…

Hell, it’s still amazing there was so little fallout after Bhopal.

Frankly, I'm not in the least surprised.
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