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Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

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Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#121

Post by redwinbee »

garygao wrote: post #93
qwertyuiop_ wrote: post #90

Why shouldn't Apple shut this down to prevent spam in order to defend the Apple customer experience.

We are solving a real user pain point and not promoting spam. Users want a more conversational interface when they're reaching out for customer support during off hours and businesses want a better medium to talk to their customers. There is value created on both sides. There is no reason for Apple to ban us.

I believe enough people have made it clear in this thread that Apple does already have reason to ban you. Whether or not you promote spam is not the issue, the issue is that Apple already has a feature built for this exact purpose; you can disagree with their approach—and maybe you’re right, I don’t know. But the idea that you won’t blocked by Apple for this is naïve.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#122

Post by antiframe »

nvme0n1p1 wrote: post #46
garygao wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not "disseminating unwanted messages". A lot of what we're doing (e.g. customer support or missed call text back) would be things that users would already be doing conversationally over iMessage.

Are you "conducting commercial activities"?

Getting a spam message about an abandoned shopping cart item is clearly "commercial activities" to me.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#123

Post by morpheuskafka »

echelon wrote: post #72
garygao wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple wouldn't ban us since we're not doing anything that would qualify as spam or abuse. Even if that hypothetical event does happen, we have SMS/RCS fallback systems in place so no conversations get stopped or lost

Did the YC interviewers ask you about this risk? Did they ask you about a bigger market you can move into? There's no way this foothold will last. You're going to get massacred. Apple WILL ban you. You're not in some capricious walled garden. You're breaking and entering, and they'll destroy you. There is nothing of value to build here. You should take the rest of the day off, then tomorrow, pivot entirely. The folks…

Seeing that YC will even fund something as risky as this, I'm going to go ahead and late apply. I have a feeling I shouldn't write that as the reason though ;)

Seriously though, this is wild. How is this different from those click farms with a wall of phones viewing livestreams or tapping on adds or whatever?

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#124

Post by morpheuskafka »

garygao wrote: post #14
rvz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the platform risk. Apple blocked Beeper.com for the same reason.

Apple doesn't inherently prohibit programmatic messaging. In fact, they actually developed Applescript for people to do that. What they are against is spam and abuse. Therefore, as long as we stay compliant and prevent spam, Apple is not necessarily against this.

> iMessage is intended for communicating with family and friends, and is not for conducting commercial activities or disseminating unwanted messages. iMessage misuse may result in service limitations.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/messages/

Apparently, they are against ANY commercial messages. Even if I personally sent marketing messages and typed them myself. So of course they are not going to like you making it easier for people to do that at scale.e

Technically, you are right that being programmatic is not the issue (so presumably those openclaw adapters are okay).

But let's not mislead investors or customers -- Apple has clearly stated your use case is not welcome (except through the iMessage Business Program they control).

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#125

Post by smikhanov »

garygao wrote: post #93
qwertyuiop_ wrote: post #90

Why shouldn't Apple shut this down to prevent spam in order to defend the Apple customer experience.

We are solving a real user pain point and not promoting spam. Users want a more conversational interface when they're reaching out for customer support during off hours and businesses want a better medium to talk to their customers. There is value created on both sides. There is no reason for Apple to ban us.

> real user pain point

That is obvious from all the upvotes your comments get on here.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#126

Post by dubcanada »

allthetime wrote: post #81
dubcanada wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For iPhone only users, so right off the bat your product is targeting 50% ish of a companies customer base. And the non iMessage people get a worse experience?

In North America iPhone/android split is far from 50/50. I have 4 different apps running and the split is about 80/20 and has been for a decade. Internationally android is used at a higher rate - but that is decreasing as lesser economies play catch up.

Not sure what bubble you live in, but that is incorrect. Maybe in California it's 80/20. Every single statistic globally is nearly 80/20% for android. There is a few rich markets and they may be 80/20 for Apple, but realistically Android wins every single time, no matter what market you look at.

China/India are like 30-40% of the world, and they are both under 20% usage.

Europe - 60/40% split for android

US/Canada - 40/60% split for iPhone

Even some of the higher countries are only 70/30% for iPhone.

Ignoring that is fine if your target is rich North Americans.

But you are still chopping off X% of customers.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#130

Post by garygao »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #109

Why would I use this instead of using iMessage for Business that is the official way and is more robust and doesn’t violate ToS. If you get shut down I have to redo this setup using Apple ?

iMessage for Business is very restrictive and has a really long approval process. On top of this, it also sends gray bubbles and doesn't allow any outbound, which prevents consented outbound use cases such as form fill text back.
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