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CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

cbp.gov

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Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#121

Post by tptacek »

simoncion wrote: post #112
tptacek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At actual border crossings, the practice at the time of the framers was that warrantless searches/inspections at border crossings were normal and permissible.

At actual border crossings, the practice at the time of the framers was not to carry along all of your private correspondence, business records, reading lists, and so forth. Related to that, given the complaints that started the war, I'd strongly expect that in Washington's day it was not permitted to perform unwarranted searches of one's sealed correspondence going through the US Post. [0] As the ability to perform…

I'm not saying that iPhones and computers don't challenge the premises of the border search exception, only that those searches don't by themselves represent some decay of the Fourth Amendment.

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#122

Post by mrkstu »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #115
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I'm not sure they can compel non-citizens. If you want in, you might have to give them the keys. But if you would rather not enter, would they compel on pain of imprisonment? The U.S. isn't China or the UK.

UK citizen here and I've never had any issue with flying in/out of UK with several electronic devices (phone, laptop, tablet, steamdeck etc). Never even been asked to power them on or demonstrate them working (i.e. to show that they're not a bomb disguised as a laptop) and don't know anyone else that's had any hassle getting back in the country. I've been selected for being swabbed for explosives a few times though,…

Australia is annoying. Israel is by far the worst- UK is bad in theory since they can jail you to compel an unlock, but obviously is going to happen to a vanishingly small number of people…

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#123

Post by sokoloff »

natch wrote: post #101
sokoloff wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read “may request” and “may be requested” quite literally. They may request it, but it doesn’t say providing it is compulsory. I have nothing to hide, but still no intention to provide my passcode.

If you have any friends or contacts or family who have ever shared any private information with you of any kind (phone number, address, photo, private opinions, etc.) you damn well have something to hide.

That was a callback to "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." Even if that didn’t land, I think it's clear from the rest of the context that I don't intend to provide my passcode.

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#124

Post by bsimpson »

floatin wrote: post #82

I just factory reset the phone or tablet and pull my data back down from cloud storage.just show up with the phone on the choose your language screen.

It says they're supposed to put it in airplane mode before searching. Of course, there's nothing preventing a Snowden-style klep the cookies and let a three letter agency reuse them later.

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#125

Post by bsimpson »

The Supreme Court has recently had an appetite to overturn precedent deemed to be rooted in faulty case law/reasoning (controversially, Roe v Wade). It would be nice to see that energy pointed at blatantly unconstitutional notions like "you have no privacy when traveling."

Except for the parts that say "we get to be even more invasive for 'national security concerns'" and that they can compel you to provide a password, this doc seems mostly reasonable if you accept that they can search you. Then again, it's not clear _why_ they should be able to search your devices. There are no foreign pests nor WMDs that exist as documents on a device. This is clearly just the government being nosy because they think they can.

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#126

Post by TimJRobinson »

smdyc1 wrote: post #25
866-RON-0-FEZ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia's been doing this forever.

We have? My international relatives have never been searched to that degree, if at all. That said, the whole thing is overreach in any democratic society.

I've had a full shakedown at the airport in Brisbane asking for passwords for phone/laptop and they will confiscate for 2 weeks if you don't comply. I'm an Australian citizen. They also didn't let me call anyone so my wife was left waiting for 3 hours wondering where I was.

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#127

Post by eff-nix »

kelnos wrote: post #107
bananamogul wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For instance, the TSA continues to publicly insist that ID (especially "Real" ID) is required to fly within the U.S., but it's not." Explain, please, because you seem to be implying that someone can board a plane from New York to LA without being legally required to show any identification.

I lost my ID once around 15 years ago and was able to board my return flight just fine. I had to get to the airport early because I -- correctly -- expected a longer, personalized security check, but I was on my flight on time, as expected. Yes, things have changed in that time with regard to the zealousness of the TSA, but the laws and regulations behind them have not.

My friend drunk drove and crashed, the cop —correctly— gave him a long talk about how that’s a bad call, then let him off. Does that mean drunk driving is now legal?

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#128

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

bananamogul wrote: post #97
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't compel you to decrypt anything, and powering down is a good idea. There are consequences for not decrypting, though: for a U.S. citizen, they can seize your stuff for up to 5 days. For non-citizens, they can elect to not let you in. Concerning "obligated", I would point out that regulations aren't laws. Governing bodies can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it so. For instance, the TSA continue…

"For instance, the TSA continues to publicly insist that ID (especially "Real" ID) is required to fly within the U.S., but it's not." Explain, please, because you seem to be implying that someone can board a plane from New York to LA without being legally required to show any identification.

You have the right to travel without ID in the U.S. The TSA may demand it, and may tell you it's legally required, but that doesn't make it true.

"In fact, the TSA does not require, and the law does not authorize the TSA to require, that would-be travelers show any identity documents. According to longstanding practice, people who do not show any identity documents travel by air every day – typically after being required to complete and sign the current version of TSA Form 415 and answer questions about what information is contained in the file about them obtained by the TSA from data broker Accurint…."

https://papersplease.org/wp/2020/05/19/tsa-tries-again-to-im...

https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/03/18/buses-trains-and-us-d...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_Unit...

ezpz

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#129

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #115
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I'm not sure they can compel non-citizens. If you want in, you might have to give them the keys. But if you would rather not enter, would they compel on pain of imprisonment? The U.S. isn't China or the UK.

UK citizen here and I've never had any issue with flying in/out of UK with several electronic devices (phone, laptop, tablet, steamdeck etc). Never even been asked to power them on or demonstrate them working (i.e. to show that they're not a bomb disguised as a laptop) and don't know anyone else that's had any hassle getting back in the country. I've been selected for being swabbed for explosives a few times though,…

Your personal experience is probably representative in that invasive searches happen to very few people, but that's not the issue at hand. The fact remains that the British will imprison you for refusing to decrypt your stuff (or for refusing to answer their questions):

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/advice_information/exa...

Re: CBP Directive 3340-049B: Border Search of Electronic Devices

#130

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

piva00 wrote: post #114
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I'm not sure they can compel non-citizens. If you want in, you might have to give them the keys. But if you would rather not enter, would they compel on pain of imprisonment? The U.S. isn't China or the UK.

In my experience going through the border in China is more pleasant than through the USA, never had a hiccup in China while I've been detained for hours without contact with the outside going through a transit in JFK.

The vast majority of people from the developed world have no problems going through any border in the developed world. Your experience is probably representative, but that's not what we're talking about. My understanding is that de facto you have no rights at all in China. The Americans take this sort of thing very seriously, which is why it's in the news and talked about. Some guy gets imprisoned for 37 days for a meme (and is subsequently paid $835k by gov't for his trouble) and it's all Greg Lukianoff can talk about. [0]

[0]: https://substack.com/@glukianoff/note/c-262196255

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