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Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

arstechnica.com

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Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#121

Post by somenameforme »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #120
somenameforme wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The articles you provided were relatively light on relevant facts, but did cite two important values - 60% of all vehicles purchased in China are now EVs, and domestic sales of such are about 1.4 million per month. The data they conspicuously left out is, well how many EVs are sold elsewhere per month? In the US, ostensibly the largest consumer market in the world, the figure is 0.082 million per month. [1] Even if w…

How is it relevant how many EVs are sold in the US? The country obviously prefers internal combustion engines. I am saying that PRC is a command economy, EV production is strongly subsidized, no labor protection, falling domestic sales and crazy low domestic consumption in general, a lot of excess of EVs to the extent that they are trashed instead of resold, and so comparing EVs by price to European EVs is silly. Not…

Your entire premise was that domestic consumption of EVs in China is low, "laughably low" as you put it. That is an absurd statement when they have, by a very wide margin, the highest consumption rate in the world not only as a whole, but even per capita - at least relative to major economies. If you want to argue that global EV consumption rates are low then that's an entirely different topic.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#122

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

somenameforme wrote: post #121
ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it relevant how many EVs are sold in the US? The country obviously prefers internal combustion engines. I am saying that PRC is a command economy, EV production is strongly subsidized, no labor protection, falling domestic sales and crazy low domestic consumption in general, a lot of excess of EVs to the extent that they are trashed instead of resold, and so comparing EVs by price to European EVs is silly. Not…

Your entire premise was that domestic consumption of EVs in China is low, "laughably low" as you put it. That is an absurd statement when they have, by a very wide margin, the highest consumption rate in the world not only as a whole, but even per capita - at least relative to major economies. If you want to argue that global EV consumption rates are low then that's an entirely different topic.

Did you see my link that shows per capita household consumption in PRC lower than world average and places like Kosovo or Sri Lanka?

Here's a relevant article https://www.ft.com/content/f294be55-98c4-48f0-abce-9041ed236...

> If you want to argue that global EV consumption rates are low

No. Do you read my comments? I argue China subsidizes production of more and more EVs and buys less and less domestically, so they will be sold at unfair prices and comparing them by price to European EVs is pointless.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#123

Post by somenameforme »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #122
somenameforme wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire premise was that domestic consumption of EVs in China is low, "laughably low" as you put it. That is an absurd statement when they have, by a very wide margin, the highest consumption rate in the world not only as a whole, but even per capita - at least relative to major economies. If you want to argue that global EV consumption rates are low then that's an entirely different topic.

Did you see my link that shows per capita household consumption in PRC lower than world average and places like Kosovo or Sri Lanka? Here's a relevant article https://www.ft.com/content/f294be55-98c4-48f0-abce-9041ed236... > If you want to argue that global EV consumption rates are low No. Do you read my comments? I argue China subsidizes production of more and more EVs and buys less and less domestically, so they wi…

Chinese nominal consumption rates are low because prices remain low in China, far lower than PPP accounts for. Being able to buy a new EV for Beyond this, you have to keep in mind that overly simplified explanations for their successes fail to a very simple sniff test. If you could achieve what China is achieving with e.g. subsidization then every single country in the world would be doing exactly that, not the least of which being the US. Most Western economies are drowning in debt with GDPs being increasingly farcically propped up by government spending, yet we have, relative to China, less than nothing to show for it. We get all the negative consequences, but none of the benefits, at least not for the common man.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#124

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

somenameforme wrote: post #123
ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see my link that shows per capita household consumption in PRC lower than world average and places like Kosovo or Sri Lanka? Here's a relevant article https://www.ft.com/content/f294be55-98c4-48f0-abce-9041ed236... > If you want to argue that global EV consumption rates are low No. Do you read my comments? I argue China subsidizes production of more and more EVs and buys less and less domestically, so they wi…

Chinese nominal consumption rates are low because prices remain low in China, far lower than PPP accounts for. Being able to buy a new EV for Beyond this, you have to keep in mind that overly simplified explanations for their successes fail to a very simple sniff test. If you could achieve what China is achieving with e.g. subsidization then every single country in the world would be doing exactly that, not the least…

> Chinese nominal consumption rates are low because prices remain low in China

Personally been to countries with higher consumption than China and lower prices, so nope.

> If you could achieve what China is achieving

If you mean "heading towards an economic catastrophe" then sure. Suppressing domestic consumption is catching up with them.

Are you seriously pointing at western country government spending while talking about PRC? That's funny.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#125

Post by somenameforme »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #124
somenameforme wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese nominal consumption rates are low because prices remain low in China, far lower than PPP accounts for. Being able to buy a new EV for Beyond this, you have to keep in mind that overly simplified explanations for their successes fail to a very simple sniff test. If you could achieve what China is achieving with e.g. subsidization then every single country in the world would be doing exactly that, not the least…

> Chinese nominal consumption rates are low because prices remain low in China Personally been to countries with higher consumption than China and lower prices, so nope. > If you could achieve what China is achieving If you mean "heading towards an economic catastrophe" then sure. Suppressing domestic consumption is catching up with them. Are you seriously pointing at western country government spending while talking…

China's GDP to debt ratio is lower than the US' while continuing to have a rapidly growing economy, whereas US growth is not only significantly less but trending downward. About 17% of Chinese GDP is accounted for by government spending, in the US it's now up to 36%. And bond yields for China are dramatically lower than in the US, meaning all of their debt also comes way cheaper.

Claiming they're headed for economic catastrophe is rather the same sort of claim as you were making above - okay, they're headed for economic catastrophe but have some of the best economic metrics relative to other major economic powers, in much the same way that they have "laughably low" consumption of EVs yet purchase more EVs than anywhere else in the world.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#126

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

somenameforme wrote: post #125
ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese nominal consumption rates are low because prices remain low in China Personally been to countries with higher consumption than China and lower prices, so nope. > If you could achieve what China is achieving If you mean "heading towards an economic catastrophe" then sure. Suppressing domestic consumption is catching up with them. Are you seriously pointing at western country government spending while talking…

China's GDP to debt ratio is lower than the US' while continuing to have a rapidly growing economy, whereas US growth is not only significantly less but trending downward. About 17% of Chinese GDP is accounted for by government spending, in the US it's now up to 36%. And bond yields for China are dramatically lower than in the US, meaning all of their debt also comes way cheaper. Claiming they're headed for economic…

This is not the best metrics for many reasons, and the actual spending is more than 30% (with higher share going to manufacturing vs. households compared to western countries), and government deficit relative to GDP is higher than in the US, but we go way off topic. I am glad you agree that comparing Chinese EVs by price to European ones is pointless though.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#127

Post by somenameforme »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #126
somenameforme wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's GDP to debt ratio is lower than the US' while continuing to have a rapidly growing economy, whereas US growth is not only significantly less but trending downward. About 17% of Chinese GDP is accounted for by government spending, in the US it's now up to 36%. And bond yields for China are dramatically lower than in the US, meaning all of their debt also comes way cheaper. Claiming they're headed for economic…

This is not the best metrics for many reasons, and the actual spending is more than 30% (with higher share going to manufacturing vs. households compared to western countries), and government deficit relative to GDP is higher than in the US, but we go way off topic. I am glad you agree that comparing Chinese EVs by price to European ones is pointless though.

These are not numbers solely from China, they are measured by third parties. They're certainly at least as reliable as the numbers I'm citing for the US.

And the entire point here is that comparing Chinese to European EVs by price is completely reasonable. There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that.

China is, again, very much like the US in the 50s-60s - a complete manufacturing behemoth with a tiny cost of living and tremendous economic opportunity which all adds up to creating an amazing situation for people (and the world at large). They just need to avoid the trap the US fell into some decades later.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#128

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

somenameforme wrote: post #127
ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the best metrics for many reasons, and the actual spending is more than 30% (with higher share going to manufacturing vs. households compared to western countries), and government deficit relative to GDP is higher than in the US, but we go way off topic. I am glad you agree that comparing Chinese EVs by price to European ones is pointless though.

These are not numbers solely from China, they are measured by third parties. They're certainly at least as reliable as the numbers I'm citing for the US. And the entire point here is that comparing Chinese to European EVs by price is completely reasonable. There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that. China is, agai…

> There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that

Sorry can't take this seriously anymore. By your logic if I give you a shitty laptop for $1 because I would literally have to trash it otherwise you therefore say it's 1000000% better than a Macbook because it's so cheap. Pretty much says it all.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#129

Post by somenameforme »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #128
somenameforme wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not numbers solely from China, they are measured by third parties. They're certainly at least as reliable as the numbers I'm citing for the US. And the entire point here is that comparing Chinese to European EVs by price is completely reasonable. There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that. China is, agai…

> There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that Sorry can't take this seriously anymore. By your logic if I give you a shitty laptop for $1 because I would literally have to trash it otherwise you therefore say it's 1000000% better than a Macbook because it's so cheap. Pretty much says it all.

BYDs aren't just cheap, they're also great cars. Western economies have become extremely dysfunctional, probably in large part due to everything being run by bottom feeder MBAs who can't see beyond the tip of their noses. It's not only possible to have cheap+good, but I think ultimately necessary for a healthy economy.

Re: Ebola Outbreak Now Third Largest Recorded and "Spreading Rapidly"

#130

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

somenameforme wrote: post #129
ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that Sorry can't take this seriously anymore. By your logic if I give you a shitty laptop for $1 because I would literally have to trash it otherwise you therefore say it's 1000000% better than a Macbook because it's so cheap. Pretty much says it all.

BYDs aren't just cheap, they're also great cars. Western economies have become extremely dysfunctional, probably in large part due to everything being run by bottom feeder MBAs who can't see beyond the tip of their noses. It's not only possible to have cheap+good, but I think ultimately necessary for a healthy economy.

If you are not comparing by price then what's the point of this? I only replied "don't compare by price" because it seems like the original comment was doing it and it is a very common mistake. If you are correctly comparing a cheap Chinese car with an expensive EU car then you are not making that mistake.
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