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Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

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Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#121

Post by analog31 »

arrowsmith wrote: post #24
jszymborski wrote: post #5

Important context, this referendum isn't binding, but rather a referendum on whether a binding referendum should be held. Separation is deeply unpopular, but Smith has been putting her thumb on the scale every step of the way, and this non-binding referendum isn't subject to the Clarity act in the same way that a subsequent binding one would be.

I don't get it. They're having a referendum on whether or not to have a referendum? Why bother with two steps? I googled the Clarity Act and it appears to be recently-passed US (not Canadian) legislation about regulating cryptocurrencies or something. What's its relevance here? I am not Canadian and know nothing about Canadian politics. Someone please enlighten me.

Interestingly, my state (Wisconsin) has a two step process for constitutional amendments. An amendment has to pass a referendum in two consecutive legislative sessions. It still doesn't prevent us from doing stupid things, but it seems to be programmed as a check on hasty voting, or on people assuming that nobody's going to vote.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#122

Post by Henchman21 »

cf100clunk wrote: post #106
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few Albertans. The Forever Canada petition got over 10% of the entire population to sign it. Considering that it was a grassroots effort and that you had to sign in person, meaning you had to go out of your way to sign an entirely optional petition, really shows how much support there is in Alberta to remain.

I've put up some basic numbers in another comment that foreshadow what a futile exercise this is likely to be for the separatists.

If they force their opponent to chew through all their available resources leaving them unable to respond in other areas, was it really futile?

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#123

Post by canadiantim »

vkou wrote: post #36
canadiantim wrote: post #25

If you want to understand why Alberta is holding a referendum on whether they should hold another separate legally-binding referendum in the future, you have to look at the recent court case where a judge in Alberta ruled that one of the two main petitions wasn’t allowed to proceed (The one that specifically called for a legally-binding referendum). The judges stated reason is that First Nations were not adequately c…

95% of Alberta is unceded First Nations land. It is not a valid country without it - without the consent of the relevant First Nations, a separated Alberta would be a few municipalities enveloped by... Canada. This is not a concern in Quebec, because the overwhelming majority of it is ceded land. If ducks had two wheels, they'd be bicycles, and if there was anything in common between the two provinces, you might have…

Pretty sure Quebec would have to break apart in order to separate too

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#124

Post by briga »

cwillu wrote: post #117
briga wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this poll ( https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/poll-canadians-living... ), nearly half of Canadians think that: 1) Alberta is not a welcoming place 2) Albertans don't care about other Canadians 3) Alberta is not a place they would feel comfortable living And noticeably, the opinions of the Albertans are generally different from the rest of the country! How curious for a place without an identity of i…

You said “despises”. Your evidence falls wide of the net.

And you have no evidence at all

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#125

Post by mmastrac »

As an Albertan, I'm embarrassed that this is the image we project to the world, and sad that our punishment for collusion with foreign enemies isn't stronger or better enforced.

One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas. He can stay there.

If there was any legitimacy in this process, the petition that got 150% of the votes in less time would have been addressed first rather than this sham, likely fake one, run by bad actors provably funded by foreign entities.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#126

Post by jpadkins »

vkou wrote: post #36
canadiantim wrote: post #25

If you want to understand why Alberta is holding a referendum on whether they should hold another separate legally-binding referendum in the future, you have to look at the recent court case where a judge in Alberta ruled that one of the two main petitions wasn’t allowed to proceed (The one that specifically called for a legally-binding referendum). The judges stated reason is that First Nations were not adequately c…

95% of Alberta is unceded First Nations land. It is not a valid country without it - without the consent of the relevant First Nations, a separated Alberta would be a few municipalities enveloped by... Canada. This is not a concern in Quebec, because the overwhelming majority of it is ceded land. If ducks had two wheels, they'd be bicycles, and if there was anything in common between the two provinces, you might have…

So because Quebec ancestors killed all the people who opposed the conquest of that land, it's okay for Quebec to secede? But because another set of Canadians didn't kill off all the natives that still claimed Alberta's land, they can't secede legally? Is that the logic?

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#127

Post by cf100clunk »

Henchman21 wrote: post #122
cf100clunk wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've put up some basic numbers in another comment that foreshadow what a futile exercise this is likely to be for the separatists.

If they force their opponent to chew through all their available resources leaving them unable to respond in other areas, was it really futile?

I'm not following your comment. How do you envision what you're suggesting, in real world terms?

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#128

Post by gmerc »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #79
gmerc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misspelled “treason”

> You misspelled “treason” Wrongthink (well, technically, crimethink) is canonically treason. Nutters on Reddit calling everything treason isn’t new. In this case, I’m failing to see how someone—who, granted, appears to be a nutter—following a lawful process is treason.

“took american money to” is treason.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#129

Post by linksnapzz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #118
linksnapzz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran also has a functioning court system w/ both qadi & mufti offering opinions.

> Iran also has a functioning court system Fair enough, I should have said credible.

I'm not enough of an expert in 12er Shia fiqh to say how credible they are-but they are there.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#130

Post by flossly »

mmastrac wrote: post #125

As an Albertan, I'm embarrassed that this is the image we project to the world, and sad that our punishment for collusion with foreign enemies isn't stronger or better enforced. One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas. He can stay there. If there was any legitimacy in this process, the petition that got 150% of the votes in less time would have been addressed first rather than this sham, likel…

As an outsider I like this idea of being able to vote yourself out. This is the ultimate test of a democracy, imho, that you can leave it democratically (by vote and not by force).

We've seen some interesting cases of this, in Spain and in the Donbas of the last years.

I think the outcome of people voting against it is a great outcome. You have the freedom. You paid for the vote (its expensive) and "they" did not win. Hurray for unity at the highest level.

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