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Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#121

Post by miki123211 »

ktallett wrote: post #81
cryo32 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology bit doesn't really matter though. The real problem is that the legislation would bring the power to prosecute people who use them or use it against them. The security services aren't having any of that shit because it puts their position at risk both from the front-facing side and recommendations and guidance issued and from their own operations.

The power to prosecute and the actual ability to prosecute are two different things. They currently can't prosecute CSAM offences nor piracy due to capacity. It won't happen.

I think VPN prosecution could happen if it was treated more like traffic offenses than like felonies.

Force ISPs to log all connections and make ISP customers accountable for their traffic, like they are in Germany for example. If you detect an IP to be used for a VPN, ask every ISP to disclose al customers who interacted with it and issue them a ticket. Three tickets and you're denied internet service for two years.

I think this would scare most people off.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#123

Post by iamnothere »

ptero wrote: post #109
ktallett wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power to prosecute and the actual ability to prosecute are two different things. They currently can't prosecute CSAM offences nor piracy due to capacity. It won't happen.

The problem is not with the state actually prosrcuting all, or even many vpn "offences". The problem is that the legislation gives states another powerful tool to prosecute people they find annoying but cannot easily punish for clearly breaking other laws.

Exactly, the effective purpose of overcriminalization is to provide a tool for selective use against “bad” people (those who get in the way). This includes recidivist criminals—though often only those who do damage to someone important—but it also includes counter-establishment activists, influencers, and supporters.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#125

Post by pjmlp »

miki123211 wrote: post #93
pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

I'm against any kind of age verification legislation, but this is a really bad argument. It doesn't answer the question of "what do we do about parents that don't do their job properly." In theory, one could implement age verification by negligent parent imprisonment, in practice, I don't think that would work, and definitely not in all cases. If we accept the premise that children having unfettered access to the int…

Since it is fashionable tiktok subject nowadays, you do it like genx and boomers.

We turned out alright.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#126

Post by braiamp »

Izmaki wrote: post #103
braiamp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this: nobody shall be unsafe online or offline, and the state shall guarantee it. That's a foundation you can build law on, instead of hoping every child got lucky with their parents.

I think North Korea is attempting to do this, for example by punishing not only the criminal but also their immediate family to a life-sentence in working camps, if the person commits severe enough crime. I don't think it's as successful as it sounds on paper, from the comfort of our western society homes.

[dead]

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#127

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Chance-Device wrote: post #115
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the idea of a whitelist enforced on device for local accounts used by children What’s wrong with making it the social media companies’ problem? If they sign up a child, they get fined. Everyone is then incentivized to come up with solutions. If some of those are shit, restrict them. If they’re not, great.

Did you actually read the post that you’re replying to?

Yes. It goes off into the same on-device wilderness the lawmakers have wandered into. It also fails Mozilla’s objection list to the status quo proposal.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#128

Post by rightbyte »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

You argue against "individualist societies" but then blame "their parents" for not coping with the kinda impossible task of protecting their kids from big tech or the surveillance state.

It is a collective problem with collective solutions.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#129

Post by zimpenfish »

amazingamazing wrote: post #118
pretzel5297 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't hold parents responsible for most neglect. Why is this special?

Does UK not have equivalent to CPS?

We do - https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-protection-system - but, at least in England, as with most governmental functions, it's been slashed to near death by years of austerity and "small government" lunacy.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#130

Post by malfist »

rightbyte wrote: post #128
pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

You argue against "individualist societies" but then blame "their parents" for not coping with the kinda impossible task of protecting their kids from big tech or the surveillance state. It is a collective problem with collective solutions.

So your solution to preventing "surveillance state" is to unmask everyone on the internet? Now who has the inconsistent argument
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