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Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

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Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#121
post #22
post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

It’s a particularly hard problem in Texas. We get torrential rains and the landscape is relatively flat. Couple that with shallow soil over lots of limestone and it means flooding is really common. We also have roads that have a “low water crossing,” where a road crosses a creekbed that is normally dry but which will flood. There are often water depth signs there (basically a vertical ruler with feet marks so you can…

Yeah, people are bad at guessing and the usual "Plan continuation bias" kicks in.

I was travelling in a group to eat lunch with friends once, after heavy rains. We reached a site where the road needs to fit under a bridge and is known to flood, there's standing water, and the driver figured it's probably not too high, he drives in and nope, water over the air intake, bye bye engine and we walked the rest of the way to lunch

I absolutely should have said "No, don't" but the plan says we have to drive under that bridge, there is no plan B. Of course plan A being "Wreck car" is a stupid plan, but the bias meant I didn't say "No" and I should have.

You wouldn't die there, just trash the car, the flooding is localised - but there are definitely other sites around here where in flood conditions you could die if you drove into water that's deeper than you realised.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#122

Waymo: *locks doors, chorus to Floods by Pantera starts playing, guns it into the water* “Wash away maaaaan, take him with the floooood”

That gives me a horrifying idea for a short story about a Waymo being hacked to carry out an assassination where it purposely drives off a bridge and into a lake.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#123
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If self-driving is better, then presumably cheaper insurance costs would be an incentive.

Different states have different rules about what sort of things insurers are allowed to charge different rates for. In the states that allow it, Tesla does offer insurance discounts for FSD usage.[1] Lemonade also offers discounts for FSD usage.[2] 1. https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance/fsd-discount 2. https://www.lemonade.com/fsd

California is one of those states that does not allow FSD usage to impact insurance rates

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#124
post #116
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia has >A product recall is a request from a manufacturer to return a product after the discovery of safety issues... I think using the term for a software update is abusing the language a bit. And may confuse people who have a real recall where the thing has to go to the dealer.

Yes, "recall" brings to mind serious issues like the gas tank exploding on the Ford Pinto.

I had one for my car because the airbag inflators were starting to go off more like a hand grenade than as intended.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#125
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> frequently I've never made that mistake; I'm not aware of anyone I know doing it. I very rarely see it myself, except on news footage. Of course it happens some time somewhere but that says nothing about frequency. > That's a tough problem Not really. Don't drive where you don't know it's safe. Definitely don't drive into moving water - puddles only, and only if not too deep: I can usually figure it out based on th…

It’s definitely a thing humans do a lot in certain places. Perhaps where you live, it isn’t as much of an issue, so naturally you and nobody you know has encountered it.

> humans do a lot

I suppose we can redefine 'a lot' to mean many things, but 99.9..% don't do it.

It's the exhausted talking point of the autonomous vehicle industry that humans are awful drivers and we are better. What is sad is seeing HN users doggedly repeat it like PR reps - it was the first line of the original comment, even though irrelevant to it - as they've done with other passions like Uber, Musk's entities, etc.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have a pre-existing database of every road, sure. And if it's kept up-to-date at all times in all vehicles.

Waymo does have a database of every today they drive, but for this they don't need one. If the car comes to a road covered with water, and that road is in the database, and the water level appears low compared to the historical level of the road in the DB, then the car could cross. if the road is not in the DB, then a different decision might be made. This is similar to humans: you might make different decisions depe…

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Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#127
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I traveled to Austin 3 weeks ago and there were entire highways not on Google Maps. Apparently they were built in just a few months.

There's some places where Apple still thinks I'm driving through a cornfield even though the development is a few years old, now. I suppose I could inform them somehow, but it's not worth the bother.

I don't know how they don't notice thousands of users driving through these "cornfields" at 60mph every day, though. You'd have thought that'd raise some alert?

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#129
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By a water sensor do you mean a sensor to detect the water level relative to the chassis? It seems like a very inexpensive downward-facing ultrasound sensor could work.

Is ultrasound less expensive than a moisture sensor? The problem with both is they effectively require the vehicle to be in the water already. They need something that can tell depth before the vehicle has to slow down.

What kind of moisture sensor are you thinking of?

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#130
post #9
post #5

Does anyone with a better understanding about LIDAR vs camera approach to autonomous drivng explain how would Tesla handle such situation ?

Waymo has LIDAR and cameras, so it is better equipped for every situation.

This seems tautological, but in practice, you might expect to see different results.

Engineering hours are finite, so if they're spread across interpreting signals from two different sources, they might not go deep enough to make either one as good as it could be.

Having your engineering resources more focused on a particular approach might actually yield better results.

I say this as someone who's dealing with LiDAR + vision vs pure vision in a different domain, and at this point, I actually think our pure vision systems are better.

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