Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

nltimes.nl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 195 posts

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#121

Post by giantg2 »

sailfast wrote: post #74
freedomben wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the hotline is an absolute joke and one of the last things I would do if I were contemplating harming myself. I've often wondered if there is hard data showing it is effective overall, or whether it's just bandwagon group think run amok. I have lost a number of friends to suicide, and as a result I spent a significant amount of time thinking about what could have been done to have helped them before it was too…

Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost. I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing? Ca…

"sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?"

There seem to be many things that we could do, like addressing suicide as a social contagion including in media portrayal, providing better substance abuse and mental health treatment options, etc. A hotline is like a bandaid - its not going to fix the underlying societal issues like disconnection, lack of community, lack of opportunity/hope, social media, etc.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#122

Post by piyuv »

gtowey wrote: post #115
kbelder wrote: post #104

"How many people came to our contact page, but left without calling the hotline?" "Don't know, boss. We'd need to add analytics." "Like what?" "Google Analytics? It's free and pretty much universal." "Ok, do it." It's just standard. Not great, and Google uses the data in all sorts of ways that they don't make obvious. But it's not a cabal of evil website owners selling data to tech giants. They're just trying to run…

At some point we have to get used to the idea that there are no such thing as free services. If you're not paying for something that clearly has a cost to the entity providing it, then value will be extracted from you in other ways.

Do you realize this thread is about a suicide preventation website? Can’t you separate between public services and profit-based ones?

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#123

Post by Frieren »

kbelder wrote: post #104

"How many people came to our contact page, but left without calling the hotline?" "Don't know, boss. We'd need to add analytics." "Like what?" "Google Analytics? It's free and pretty much universal." "Ok, do it." It's just standard. Not great, and Google uses the data in all sorts of ways that they don't make obvious. But it's not a cabal of evil website owners selling data to tech giants. They're just trying to run…

> industry standard

Some time more than 10 years ago, industry standard moved away form Linux, Apache, open source, etc. to big-tech. Many developers attending conferences cannot differentiate propaganda (Facebook connected, Google I/O, etc.) from a technical presentation . And they moved all their stack to software and hardware that is not under their control. A total failure of engineering but a big win for shareholders.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#125

Post by athrowaway3z »

timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

I wasn't going to comment, but this is just too dumb on too many levels.

The hotline is not the way to deal with suicidality - suicidality is a longer process and something you can ask your GP about and most help is covered under most western versions of universal health care.

The hotline is an idea that intervenes in the last steps of a suicide process. The idea can reach into the moment where people have convinced themselves they're stuck - and they can reach out with extremely low effort or barrier to entry.

If you have some better 'idea' we can spread into the culture that does this better, then by all means enlighten us.

---

You could have made a case and started a discussion how too many people see the existence of the hotline as _the_ way to deal with suicidality, but you didn't. You just decided to spread some shallow vibe nonsense.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#126

Post by bondarchuk »

kbelder wrote: post #104

"How many people came to our contact page, but left without calling the hotline?" "Don't know, boss. We'd need to add analytics." "Like what?" "Google Analytics? It's free and pretty much universal." "Ok, do it." It's just standard. Not great, and Google uses the data in all sorts of ways that they don't make obvious. But it's not a cabal of evil website owners selling data to tech giants. They're just trying to run…

Almost noone is really "evil" in this stereotypical way, it is a thoroughly unhelpful way to view these things, it's more like criminal negligence that people who work for the government to handle medical data still don't know or don't care that google analytics sends data to google after 20 years of google analytics existing, and that the government as a whole does not have systems in place to enforce data privacy and hold people accountable who violate it.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#127

Post by yladiz »

timcobb wrote: post #106
watwut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are literally government paid social service you can call without additional charge. What the hell is capitalist about it? Also Dutch give you health insurance beyond covid shot.

> What the hell is capitalist about it? The rest, everything else. It's darkly amusing to me we don't get healthcare here in the US but we do get suicide hotlines. EDIT: wouldn't be surprised if Trump defunded/privatized suicide hotlines using companies run by the Trump Org.

> The rest, everything else.

What are you specifically talking about? What is “everything else”?

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#128

Post by some_random »

mden wrote: post #90
timcobb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category. For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide di…

Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing. It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.

Most people don't believe in incremental progress anymore, either it works 100% of the time and solves everything forever or it's a failure and you probably wanted it to fail because you're evil.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#129

Post by yladiz »

giantg2 wrote: post #121
sailfast wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost. I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing? Ca…

"sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?" There seem to be many things that we could do, like addressing suicide as a social contagion including in media portrayal, providing better substance abuse and mental health treatment options, etc. A hotline is like a bandaid - its not going to fix the underlying societal issues like disconnection, lack of community, lack of opportunity/hope, social m…

What’s your point? Okay, the hotline is a bandage, but that’s entirely the point, you use it when you’re feeling suicidal and you need to talk to someone. You don’t use it to fix structural issues in your life that lead to you feeling like that.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#130

Post by cindyllm »

llm_nerd wrote: post #56
mothballed wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

Seems like one of those situations where damned if they do, damned if they don't, isn't it? Like if someone is in immediate crisis what do you expect them to do? I feel like if someone is calling a line, they are looking for intervention. If someone cries for help and the response is ensuring that someone doesn't fearmonger on Hacker News, I feel like that would be a problem. "And then yay, your gun rights gone forev…

[dead]
Post reply on HN