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How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

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Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#121

Post by Moldoteck »

bullen wrote: post #118
thisislife2 wrote: post #108

Just a thought - stop bloody soldering the RAM and the SSDs. That partially transfers the burden on to the customers and makes their product more repairable ... Mac Minis (with un-soldered RAM and HDD / SSDs) used to be sold with minimum 4 GB RAM, if I remember right). This, way, you can still sell devices with lower RAM, and customers can upgrade in the future when supply increases.

100% agree the problem is modular RAM can't handle the timings of the SoC. There is a new modular RAM standard for precisely that but knowing Apple they will want to make their own. SSD should be easy but since RAM does not last that much longer you still need to resolder that after 5-10 years!

you can have a mix- 4gb embedded ram + 1-2 slots of slower layer

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#122

Post by iamshs »

spider-mario wrote: post #113
iamshs wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem is locked hardware. Newest Synology hardware has lifted the HDD locks but still doesn't allow third party SSD and RAM. Mac Mini storage upgrade is a DIY solution, why not use the standard M.2 2230 slot?

> Newest Synology hardware has lifted the HDD locks but still doesn't allow third party SSD and RAM. True of NVMe SSDs, but SATA SSDs are no problem.

Yes. These units now come with dedicated NVMe slots and they don't accept third party drives.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#123

Post by Dunedan »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #61
astrange wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the websites that use that RAM, not the browsers. (Often the ads on the websites.)

I disagree, there is low-hanging fruit Firefox is leaving on the table. The main thing that comes to mind is tab unloading. They don't unload tabs automatically like chrome can. I was pleasantly surprised at the tab unloading settings under "memory saver" in ungoogled-chromium.

Firefox unloads tabs under memory pressure since more than 4 years: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2021/10/tab-unloading-in-firefox-9...

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#124

Post by rswail »

realaknez wrote: post #107

I think it's kind of inevitable for somebody to take up a RAM factory to sell for normal consumers and brands even if it means less profit the sales would be much bigger. The question is if somebody is kind enough to do so.

I read somewhere that there are other memory manufacturers in CN that are pivoting to consumer RAM to fill the gap.

Personally I think the AI boom will crash out when all of these datacentres get rationalized. RAM manufacturers will crash as is normal in the semiconductor market.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#125

Post by rswail »

mlindner wrote: post #29
ls65536 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They bought P.A. Semi, but it was for their design capability; they never had fabs anyway, and Apple still depends on TSMC and others for manufacturing chips. Apple building fabs to ensure a guaranteed supply of memory (or logic) chips would be an unprecedented level of vertical integration, even for them.

SpaceX/xAI is investing in creating their own fab. If they can, Apple certainly can.

You've got to wonder why. It makes no sense for xAI to make their own chips.

The "integration" of SpaceX/xAI is just standard Musk-move-losses-to-the-company-making-money-at-the-moment bullshit.

Apple actually have the runs on the board, xAI has Musk-BS.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#126

Post by rswail »

fhn wrote: post #47
mlindner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX/xAI is investing in creating their own fab. If they can, Apple certainly can.

that's crazy. Looks like Intel is part of this https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/intel-...

Part of the trump bullshit that the USGov has taken 10% of Intel.

It's actual corruption and the standard fascist model of corporate takeover by the state.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#127

Post by chrisweekly »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #116
ruguo wrote: post #31

I wonder if companies like Apple will eventually start making memory themselves.

But memory is a quite a specialist manufacturing process, they couldn't just send a design to TSMC and get the same quality and cost. It would take years (decades) to create their own factories that might be able to produce competitive memory. If they use a third party to manufacture with existing skills (Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron etc) they might as well just use their designs too (and buy their chips)

"Decades" seems excessive

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#128

Post by spicymaki »

CuriousRose wrote: post #78
shye wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t. Operating a FAB requires employing PhDs that are willing to work 8 hours shifts with no breaks (each removal of a bunnysuit is an expensive exercise), and there’s no reason to believe SpaceX is capable of hiring such people.

There was a point made recently by Musk that the whole clean room idea is outdated if you can just ensure the path the silicon takes from wafer to lidding is clean. Seems solvable to me, but leaves me wondering why it hasn’t been done before. I assume there is no human handling of raw/etched silicon now anyway, so why does the whole room need to be clean?

The semiconductor fab process changes dynamically to manage yield. It is not a static environment, automating with robotics is fine when things are static like a automotive assembly line, but high end semiconductor fabs are a different beast (The analogy I heard was repairing a plane while in flight). Robots are not purely clean as well they shed contaminates as well, which must be managed too. Entropy is the reason why we still need humans in the loop.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#129

Post by anonymars »

pjc50 wrote: post #112
thisislife2 wrote: post #108

Just a thought - stop bloody soldering the RAM and the SSDs. That partially transfers the burden on to the customers and makes their product more repairable ... Mac Minis (with un-soldered RAM and HDD / SSDs) used to be sold with minimum 4 GB RAM, if I remember right). This, way, you can still sell devices with lower RAM, and customers can upgrade in the future when supply increases.

It takes up more space and costs more (connectors are surprisingly expensive), as well as adding an electrical overhead, while most (yes, not all) customers don't take advantage of it.

Also somewhat less secure (cold boot attack: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack#Preventing_physi...)

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#130

Post by kotaKat »

nikhizzle wrote: post #43

Ex-Apple kernel engineer here, Apple will deal with the memory shortage by making software more efficient in ram usage. Apple will just make every aspect of the system more and more memory efficient. They've done it before over and over and can do it again.

Apple also has all that fast flash to swap to. I never notice when I'm swapping. Even a Neo has fast enough flash to handle a little swap, as a treat.
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