Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I hate soldering

user8.bearblog.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 244 posts

Re: I hate soldering

#121

Post by BenjiWiebe »

Doxin wrote: post #66
hn111 wrote: post #62

I got into soldering as a child, but never learned how to do it properly. Years later I found this comic-book-style guide somewhere online, which made it quite easy to do without messing it up: https://mightyohm.com/files/soldercomic/FullSolderComic_EN.p...

Important to note that these days you really should use lead-free solder. You'll find all sorts of people going around claiming that leaded is better, but it's really not, and it's not worth the health risk. Your iron needs to be about 20c hotter than for leaded and your solder joints will look dull instead of shiny. If you find lead-free solder to not flow properly to be grainy your iron isn't hot enough. Still wash…

Did you know that "real" Parmesan cheese (Parmigiano-Reggiano) is made in copper vats?

And copper plumbing is super common for potable water?

And plenty of spirits are distilled in copper stills?

I mean, encouraging handwashing is fine but copper isn't what you need to worry about.

Re: I hate soldering

#122

Post by sandreas »

tecleandor wrote: post #94
sandreas wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting with soldering, I find these 200$+ recommendations (regardless of which tool) hard to justify. # Soldering iron I'd recommend the Pinecil V2 with IronOS. https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS # Solder fume extraction I've built a simple fume extraction with an old plastic case, a 120mm fan and a sheet of carbon filter attached to a 120mm dryer / air conditioning hose. Around 15$ and good enough for soldering from…

How well does the pump work? A couple times I've had to desolder a connector or IC with lots of pins from a PCB and it's a painful process. I've always wanted to buy one of those, but I've seen lots of reports about getting clogged easily. I rarely desolder, but I can easily justify a hundred bucks if I can avoid all that hours of work, where I'm also risking damaging an IC, lifting a pad, or something else...

I tried different ones and this is clearly the winner.

Small, silent and reliable for cheap money.

I did some minor mods and use these de-makeup cotton pads because they are cheaper but so far a great experience.

Another important note: don't go cheaper here. These manual desoldering pumps (<30 bucks) are pretty bad and the other zd-... Arent worth the money.

Re: I hate soldering

#123

Post by BenjiWiebe »

foo42 wrote: post #109

This is somewhat off topic, but a question to Americans: Why do none of you seem to pronounce the "l" in soldering? Every US video seems to say "soddering"

Don't know - we also don't pronounce plenty of other letters too. Plumbing is plumming not plum-bing.

Also apparently the word solder comes from Middle English 'soudure' which doesn't even have an L in it.

Re: I hate soldering

#124

Post by BenjiWiebe »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #90
Pr0ject217 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recommendations?

With the exception of a hot air rework tool, a soldering iron should complete a nice fillet within 3 seconds. Adjustable temperature kits tend to hide the skills needed to work with the thermal mass of the iron itself. Soldering with an iron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvl_KYif9zA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RXugDd0xik Drag soldering with a hoof tip iron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUyetZ5RtPs https://…

Why not use brass wool? I've used it for a long time and not noticed any problems. My soldering iron tip looks and works great.

Re: I hate soldering

#125

Post by Saigonautica »

Animats wrote: post #21

He's soldering like it's fifty years ago. Everything is lead-free surface mount now. Solder paste, stencils, reflow ovens. Hand soldering is precision temperature controlled irons, hot air rework stations, magnifiers, cameras, and exhaust fans. The tools are more complicated, more expensive, and better. One of the lessons of surface mount work is that you really can move your fingers a thousandth of an inch. But you…

After moving to Asia, it did seem that fewer of my colleagues remarked on my choice of SMT for everything. I hadn't really thought about it until now!

Custom PCBs are even cheaper here than in North America, and longer workdays meant I had less time for hobbies. That probably made me double down on my choice.

I don't own much fancy equipment, just a cheap hot air rework station. I've found that mixing in fresh gel flux into my solder paste to get the right consistency made a big difference, enough that I never really needed more tools.

After doing that, I just sort of smear some near-ish the pads (perversely, often using a THT resistor), drop the parts in approximately the correct position with tweezers, and heat it up gently. Surface tension handles the rest. Once in a while, an 0402 resistor shifts out of position, but otherwise it just works. I'd probably need better tools for BGA.

What I love best is that SMT microcontrollers can be very, very cheap. I like the attiny10 (36$ for 100 computers! What a wonder!). There are plenty that are under 10 cents each, but I rather like AVR assembler, and their datasheets are very good.

Re: I hate soldering

#126

Post by throwup238 »

Fnoord wrote: post #76
cyberax wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try rosin flux, it smells actually pleasant! A lot of initial soldering mistakes are from using incorrect temperature, not cleaning the surfaces with flux, or from using wrong tips. You do get better rather quickly, especially if you ask for help!

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I have given up. Maybe it will inspire another reader. I didn't write it to discourage others, but to underline that sometimes, defeat is OK to admit, rather than keep trying. I mean, a smell is temporary unpleasant but what happened to my health here? I am a former smoker, so I guess damage was previously done there. This specific iron is a portable one (I had it hooked up on a power…

> It was lead-free soldering tin with flux included.

Flux core solder is crap. It doesn’t contain enough flux to begin with and since it’s inside the solder, it can’t actually do the work it’s supposed to. You need to apply flux separately before soldering, and lead-free solder used to be harder to work with. That’s the leading mistake I’ve seen frustrate beginners.

Steady hands aren’t a requirement unless you’re doing very complex repairs like threading wire through a BGA grid. You’re supposed to use the surface tension of the solder to snap the component’s pins to the PCB pads. After you snap two corners to the pads, you can just glide a tip with some solder over the rest of the pins and the heat and flux do the rest of the work (the flux’s main job is actually changing the solder’s surface tension to make this easier and more predictable).

Re: I hate soldering

#127

Post by throwup238 »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #111
birdsongs wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flux, liberally applied, is the sudo of soldering. It lets you force your will and make the solder do what you want. No one ever uses enough. I always have either a pen with a felt tip, or a syringe of chip quik. It (a good proper flux) is what most people are missing when they struggle with SMD, the flux makes the solder almost magnetic and it jumps perfectly to the pad and the component. Mess up, make a bridge or b…

And don't ever think the flux core within the solder will be enough.

The flux in flux core solder is completely useless for PCB soldering, It needs to already be on the PCB when the molten solder meets it because its main purpose is wetting the surfaces and reducing the surface tension of the solder so that it flows easier. Properly fluxed solder behaves very differently from the stubborn solder balls people normally experience when starting out.

Re: I hate soldering

#128

Post by Liftyee »

This sounds like an opinion written by a "clean hands" computer scientist. Electronic engineers have it easy with their soldering - mechanical engineers deal with much more stubborn oils, greases, metal swarf...

Isopropyl alcohol removes all the soldering residue. Personally, all it took is decent equipment and some practice to make soldering enjoyable. It can be frustrating at times, but usually the problem is (lack of) heat, flux or patience.

Re: I hate soldering

#129

Post by Doxin »

poulpy123 wrote: post #115
Doxin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leaded solder is easier to work with for personal projects it really isn't if you use a nice modern lead-free solder. you'll need your iron to be about 20c hotter, but it's not like the early days of lead-free where it'd flow all weird.

Do you have a brand recommendation ? Leaded solder is unavailable in my country

not really? I have a habit of using the wrongest solder for my projects. The stuff I use currently was formulated for wave soldering, no clue why it comes in spools but it was cheap.

In general the formulation is more important than the brand, and the formulation isn't /that/ important either. If it's lead free, has a rosin core, and comes on a spool, you can probably use it.

Re: I hate soldering

#130

Post by Liftyee »

lelanthran wrote: post #107
sandreas wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting with soldering, I find these 200$+ recommendations (regardless of which tool) hard to justify. # Soldering iron I'd recommend the Pinecil V2 with IronOS. https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS # Solder fume extraction I've built a simple fume extraction with an old plastic case, a 120mm fan and a sheet of carbon filter attached to a 120mm dryer / air conditioning hose. Around 15$ and good enough for soldering from…

I second this comment and it really should have been higher in the hierarchy - WTF are you going to do with an expensive setup that a lit magnifier and controllable iron (with interchangeable tips) can't? If you need a reflow oven, that's a different thing altogether, and you should probably repurpose an old toaster oven. I delivered production boards (small run) that looked and worked great using a non-adjustable $1…

Hard to justify for a beginner? Sure.

"Can't tell the difference?" is not true, once you're dealing with small enough parts.

Can I use a magnifier to solder 0.4mm pitch parts? Sure. Would I prefer a binocular microscope? 100%, every time. Both usable, not the same.

Post reply on HN