The Vatican's Website in Latin • Hacker News Board

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#121

Post by anticleiades » Thu, May 07, 2026, 2:16 PM UTC

adrian_b wrote: post #82

efskap wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the perspective! I guess it depends on the outcomes in question If they're measured by traditional academic metrics (parsing, recalling declension tables, translating into English), then Wheelock's grammar-first approach really does optimize for that. On the other hand Ørberg optimizes more for reading fluency and intuitive comprehension, which is harder to measure on a standard Latin exam.

Intuitive comprehension works much better for Medieval Latin, like that used in the scientific publications of the 16th/17th/18th/19th centuries, i.e. the kind of Latin that would be used by people like Newton or Gauss. Medieval Latin is influenced by the modern European languages, so it uses a similar word order and similar methods for expressing various things. On the other hand for Classic Latin, e.g. for works wr…

> but it is a Latin-French dictionary

I can recommend the Lewis&Short that is Latin-English.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#122

Post by lo_zamoyski » Thu, May 07, 2026, 2:29 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #63

throw0101a wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Catholic Social Teaching: 19th C origins. An alternate base to Marxism for social justice. See specifically perhaps the encyclical Rerum novarum ( Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor ) from 1891: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_novarum * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching Various others over the decades.

It should be said that, as in many other fields, it was effectively forced on the church by external development. Marx published The Communist Manifesto in 1848 and Das Kapital in 1867; it took more than a generation for the church to accept that workers' rights were a thing. Even after that shift, the Catholic Church continued to be a fundamentally reactionary force in the realm of social policies, all the way throu…

This sounds like a whiggish progressive distortion of history.

First, the Church isn't in the business of policy. The Church recognizes the distinction between secular and religious authority, and indeed, it is the origin of that distinction, from which the exaggerated liberal separation of Church and State comes from (you won't find this distinction outside of Christianity, and indeed it makes no sense outside of that context). The Church will advise or comment or respond to policies as a moral authority, but policy as such does not belong to its scope.

Second, Catholic Social Teaching didn't materialize out of thin air. It is a culmination and explicit formulation of millennia of teaching. The industrial, political, and economic upheavals of the modern era are what motivated this explicit formulation.

Third, I wonder what you consider as "reactionary" here. The term itself is an incredibly loaded and condescending progressive term and takes for granted the correctness of the progressive view. The Church has been consistent in its teaching. It does not adapt to what is fashionable or to ideological fallout (even if particular prelates may show signs of doing so).

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#123

Post by lo_zamoyski » Thu, May 07, 2026, 2:37 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #12

jdw64 wrote: post #4

I used to think the Vatican would be old-fashioned, but the writing on its site is more readable than I expected. In particular, while reading the section “Development: Humanism and Posthumanism,” I found it interesting to compare the religious worldview of the West with my own more humanistic worldview. This passage especially stood out to me: > At the application level, AI in the strict sense raises questions about…

People love to wallow in the stereotype that the Catholic Church is old fashioned and anti-science. That's mostly propaganda leftover from 300 years ago. Catholic nuns were instrumental in the development of computers. A Catholic priest is fundamental to the Big Bang Theory†. Dozens of craters on the moon were named by and for Catholic clergy who discovered them. † https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

It is indeed a historically recent lie propagated by the Church's enemies, most notably Enlightenment talking heads and Protestants. It is part of the founding myth of scientism. It needs this myth to sustain its opposition and arrogation of science onto itself, just as Protestants need their countless myths about the Church to sustain their opposition and rebellion.

Historically, however, this framing of opposition would have been incomprehensible to Catholics. Scholasticism itself provided the intellectual foundations for modern science. Historically, you won't find a sustained and fertile scientific enterprise anywhere but the Christian West. As Jaki puts it, everywhere else, it was stillborn.

This battle between Religion vs. Science is an ignorant myth repeated by the ignorant and by tendentious bigots.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#124

Post by ks2048 » Thu, May 07, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

nephihaha wrote: post #88

ks2048 wrote: post #36

They have 10 languages linked from their home page ( https://www.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html ). Latin and Chinese are the only two that don't have the home page same design. Maybe they've laid-off some of their translators.

I'm surprised Russian isn't on there.

If this is correct,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

There's only 717,500 Catholics in Russia.

Although, careful with this table - it says there's 660,439 in Saudi Arabia - which must be foreign workers, ie not Arabic speakers.

A big one missing is Korean.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#125

Post by Jakob » Thu, May 07, 2026, 3:30 PM UTC

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #115

dhosek wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the baptismal parish is the official keeper of your sacramental records, so when you’re married, the marriage is communicated to that parish and added to your sacramental record (likewise for confirmation if it doesn’t happen at your baptismal church, and, less commonly ordination will also be communicated there). When parishes are closed or consolidated, the bishop will indicate what parish becomes the new…

> baptismal parish is the official keeper of your sacramental records Interesting fact that I (as a Catholic) was not aware of, though I've observed it happening in practice when preparing to marry my wife, who did get all the relevant records from her home parish in a different part of Austria from where we were living at the time. I'm curious about two things though, if you happen to know them: first is this "offic…

For a long time this was a common concept: that more central authorities should only come in where more local cannot effectively do it (subsidiarity). This was of course pretty universal until recently. The oldest counter-example I can think of is the French Revolution that started to centralise.

The church works like DNS in that regard. (Without the caching. ;)

While it was always decentralised, the standardisation of the documents was with the Council of Trent ~1550 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trent

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#126

Post by zombot » Thu, May 07, 2026, 3:31 PM UTC

cwnyth wrote: post #113

golem14 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former pupil that took 7+years of Latin, I think the probability of actually reading latin texts fluently today would have been orders of magnitude higher had instruction been coupled with Ørberg. I still want to be able to read hobbitus ille, but no thanks to my Latin classes (and I think I had decent teachers).

Sure, Ørberg coupled with other books is fine enough. I do think his basic idea (a text that gets progressively more grammatically complex) is important and good, but not without exercises, grammatical elucidation, drills, etc. Also, you're much better off reading The Hobbit in English. The Latin translation is known to be less than superb.

Harrius Potter et philosophi lapis OTOH I found a blast to read. The translator is quite resourceful finding Latin names for all kinds of modern stuff. Visne ranam socolatam?

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#127

Post by red-iron-pine » Thu, May 07, 2026, 4:02 PM UTC

karel-3d wrote: post #86

zdragnar wrote: post #2

I'm somewhat surprised it's still up, given the rather firm refusal by Francis to allow the Latin mass at churches that wanted it in the States.

Roman Rite liturgy wars? On Hacker News? More likely than you think.

as likely as centipedes in genitals

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#128

Post by jonjacky » Thu, May 07, 2026, 4:14 PM UTC

jquinby wrote: post #6

jdw64 wrote: post #4

I used to think the Vatican would be old-fashioned, but the writing on its site is more readable than I expected. In particular, while reading the section “Development: Humanism and Posthumanism,” I found it interesting to compare the religious worldview of the West with my own more humanistic worldview. This passage especially stood out to me: > At the application level, AI in the strict sense raises questions about…

There is an AI working group in one of the dicasteries that has produced two excellent publications: Encountering Artificial Intelligence ( https://jmt.scholasticahq.com/article/91230-encountering-art... ) Reclaiming Human Agency in the Age of Artificial Intelligence ( https://jmt.scholasticahq.com/article/154545-reclaiming-huma... )

Also pertinent and well-written, from the Vatican itself, including some quotes from Pope Francis:

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/docu...

ANTIQUA ET NOVA: Note on the Relationship Between Artificial Intelligence and Human Intelligence. "Francis ... on 14 January 2025 ... approved this Note and ordered its publication."

via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750835, comment by jimmcslim on Pope Francis has died.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#129

Post by dhosek » Thu, May 07, 2026, 4:33 PM UTC

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #115

dhosek wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the baptismal parish is the official keeper of your sacramental records, so when you’re married, the marriage is communicated to that parish and added to your sacramental record (likewise for confirmation if it doesn’t happen at your baptismal church, and, less commonly ordination will also be communicated there). When parishes are closed or consolidated, the bishop will indicate what parish becomes the new…

> baptismal parish is the official keeper of your sacramental records Interesting fact that I (as a Catholic) was not aware of, though I've observed it happening in practice when preparing to marry my wife, who did get all the relevant records from her home parish in a different part of Austria from where we were living at the time. I'm curious about two things though, if you happen to know them: first is this "offic…

It is a universal practice.

For those baptized in a different church but received into the Catholic church, they will go through a ceremony at the Easter Vigil Mass (where they will typically receive confirmation and first communion) and that church will be their official keeper of records. They will have a copy of whatever proof of baptism the person had. In rare cases where a person was baptized, but there is absolutely no written record (things like an inscription in a family Bible count as written record), they will receive conditional baptism where the person doing the baptism (usually a priest, but not necessarily) will preface the words of the baptism with the phrase, “if you are able to be baptized.” This was the normative practice for those baptized outside the Catholic church before Vatican II. As mentioned in a sibling comment, the baptismal and sacramental records of the church are a key source of genealogical data for many researchers.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#130

Post by toyg » Thu, May 07, 2026, 4:39 PM UTC

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #122

toyg wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be said that, as in many other fields, it was effectively forced on the church by external development. Marx published The Communist Manifesto in 1848 and Das Kapital in 1867; it took more than a generation for the church to accept that workers' rights were a thing. Even after that shift, the Catholic Church continued to be a fundamentally reactionary force in the realm of social policies, all the way throu…

This sounds like a whiggish progressive distortion of history. First, the Church isn't in the business of policy . The Church recognizes the distinction between secular and religious authority, and indeed, it is the origin of that distinction, from which the exaggerated liberal separation of Church and State comes from (you won't find this distinction outside of Christianity, and indeed it makes no sense outside of t…

> This sounds like a whiggish progressive distortion of history.

Proceeds to argue that the Catholic Church is not in the business of policy, when it ran an actual, sizeable _nation state_ all the way to 1870 and in fact was extremely pissy when it was taken from them. And you call me distorting? Lol. They are in the business of policy, they've always been.

Dude, I'm from a city that was directly ruled by popes for centuries. We've dealt with all that rubbish over and over, Gelasius' swords etc etc. The reality is that the institution does what it does in order to survive and maintain as much power and influence as possible, by any means necessary. They will find ways to justify anything and its opposite, because theology is just a literary game.

Rerum novarum was an attempt to maintain power and influence in a situation where their power system was fundamentally challenged (or unmasked, some would say). It remained a niche and largely ignored effort all the way to Council II. For all the effort of some local clergy, most of the real powerbrokers in the Catholic Church still don't give two shits about redistribution and social justice, and never will.