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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

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Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#121

Post by embedding-shape »

tomnipotent wrote: post #114
embedding-shape wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which are part of the Spanish government. Judges in Spain are not part of the government ("Gobierno"). They are part of the Poder Judicial, the judiciary. The Spanish Constitution separates these clearly, give it a skim if you haven't already.

The judiciary is part of the government. Being an independent branch doesn't change that. Government doesn't just mean legislative.

That's not what the constitution says though. "Government" ("Gobierno") is what an American would understand "executive branch" to be, I'm guessing this is why it's confusing. I tried to make it easier by adding the translations, but maybe that's just making it more confusing :)

I guess broadly in English you'd say the judges are part of the state, but they're not a part of the Spanish Government.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#122

Post by [deleted] »

aduwah wrote: post #105

I wonder why didn't Cloudflare just say that technically they can't block the IPs for a short time as they have no mechanism to do it and it would take a significant amount of $$ to develop it. Right after this statement they could have permanently block all the IPs and let the outraged customers make enough noise that would have prompt the government to act sooner.

[deleted]

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#123

Post by amcvitty »

tomnipotent wrote: post #114
embedding-shape wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which are part of the Spanish government. Judges in Spain are not part of the government ("Gobierno"). They are part of the Poder Judicial, the judiciary. The Spanish Constitution separates these clearly, give it a skim if you haven't already.

The judiciary is part of the government. Being an independent branch doesn't change that. Government doesn't just mean legislative.

That’s true in America, but the word government is applied more narrowly elsewhere, including in the UK.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#124

Post by petcat »

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #80
pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone can explain, but I don't understand why such an order isn't applied to cloudflare themselves?

CF would pretty much need to monitor this live in that case which is impossible. The pirates sometimes even create new domains for specific games. This is a risk with shared IP addresses. I sold CF to many customers and I would say the risk in general is minimal. At least outside Spain. But people should stop whining and use a better service if needed.

> But people should stop whining and use a better service if needed.

A better service that the Spanish government will also block?

Cloudflare is not the bad actor here. The Spanish government is.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#125

Post by ahtihn »

tomnipotent wrote: post #114
embedding-shape wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which are part of the Spanish government. Judges in Spain are not part of the government ("Gobierno"). They are part of the Poder Judicial, the judiciary. The Spanish Constitution separates these clearly, give it a skim if you haven't already.

The judiciary is part of the government. Being an independent branch doesn't change that. Government doesn't just mean legislative.

The judiciary is part of the state. The government is also part of the state. They are different parts.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#126

Post by thaumasiotes »

estebank wrote: post #18
dmitrygr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually hope they do. this will force a proper reckoning about the situation and maybe a proper fix.

On the one hand, I would tend to agree that making things painful enough might force people to stop ignoring and improve things. On the other, after seeing waves hands at everything since 2016 makes me very skeptical of accelerationism: sometimes things just get worse and worse, there's no bottom to bounce from. Or maybe we just never really hit rock bottom?

Well, this very article is describing how popular outrage in Spain is forcing the legislature to take action against La Liga.

(Yes, the action described in the article is explictly not legally binding. That was also true of the Brexit vote.)

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#127

Post by benhurmarcel »

tomnipotent wrote: post #107
embedding-shape wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs. The Spanish government is not the ones enforcing the ban here. La Liga and Telefonica went to the judges, who are the ones making ISPs to enforce these blocks, as an intermediate "fix" essentially.

> went to the judges Which are part of the Spanish government.

In many countries, the word “government” only refers to the executive branch

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#128

Post by nalaj »

embedding-shape wrote: post #121
tomnipotent wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judiciary is part of the government. Being an independent branch doesn't change that. Government doesn't just mean legislative.

That's not what the constitution says though. "Government" ("Gobierno") is what an American would understand "executive branch" to be, I'm guessing this is why it's confusing. I tried to make it easier by adding the translations, but maybe that's just making it more confusing :) I guess broadly in English you'd say the judges are part of the state, but they're not a part of the Spanish Government.

[flagged]

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#129

Post by TheCoelacanth »

embedding-shape wrote: post #97
tshaddox wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the Cloudflare network resources in question were not located in Spain and thus not under Spanish jurisduction. Or even if they were, it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs.

> it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs. The Spanish government is not the ones enforcing the ban here. La Liga and Telefonica went to the judges, who are the ones making ISPs to enforce these blocks, as an intermediate "fix" essentially.

This appears to be using "government" in American English sense, where "government" refers to anyone who works for the state in any capacity, including courts, not just the executive.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#130

Post by rtkwe »

dwedge wrote: post #111
rtkwe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any action by cloudflare before a court order or notice would be proactive. There's no way to effectively block streamers of live shows because they can create new sites or accounts for each event and by the time they're found, reported and cloudflare reasonably reviews and acts on them the event will be long over. What do you expect cloudflare to actually do about these streams?

> or notice Maybe I'm being optimistic but I'm assuming the first action wasn't large scale IP blocks. Cloudflare likely didn't take action. > What do you expect cloudflare to actually do about these streams? I'm sorry but I'm not buying that the market leader in bot detection can't detect sport suddenly being streamed to an influx of people from a new IP at kick off. If this was the US banning them, I'm sure they'd…

Even if they could detect that that'd require peeking into every bit that passes through their service(s) looking for offending content AND require knowing it's not a licensed stream. The latter is own can of worms, they can't know if any particular piece of data is properly licensed or not. Bot detection is relatively easy in comparison, the distinction between licensed and illegal streams is 100% vibes from cloudflare's available data.
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