Live data from Hacker News

Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

forbes.com

121–130 of 187 posts

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SLAs that are valuable to their clients, guarantees and mechanisms to protect them from data exfiltration, and generally long-term contracts with cash-stable orgs like they're currently doing. So long as they're sufficiently liquid at the right time, they don't really need to shelter more. They need to plan for a fire sale on the bulk of their operating expenses.

It's extremely hard to plan for a fire sale on the bulk of your operating expenses when all of your customers can see the fire sale happening and know they're now paying you way too much. That's the whole intuition of a general "US AI bubble"; if OpenAI filed for bankruptcy tomorrow, most people expect that would be a crisis for Anthropic and Gemini rather than a windfall opportunity to pick up their compute for chea…

The crash would come from being unable to fulfill financial engagements when total real income + funding fails to keep up with spending, and does it enough that the valuation mirage starts to fade.

What that reveals is the loaded cost of inference being more expensive than they've been showing, not cheaper. The crash would be the end of subsidized costs to users, not the revelation that it's a high-margin operation.

Selling compute/inference at more of a loss will probably not fly in the context of bankruptcy manoeuvers. They will need to shed spending engagements instead. I imagine Mistral would rather buy out some of their Nvidia purchase agreements for a discount if they want to build additional capacity at that time. I also don't think they'd be interested in US datacenters at all. If they want them they can get that in Canada, with a better ally and less political + financial risks, which is kind of the Mistral segment already.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#123
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's pretty good consumer protection in the EU. I imagine consumer protection routes probably would apply here. Definitely not really acceptable though nonetheless; you're a paying customer / subscriber that got 'scammed'...

From the perspective of the company he was scamming them by not paying for a previously agreed service. > Stripe allows subscriptions to be fixed in the background Sounds like this is a scheme against customers that GP fell for. Are you claiming for the following months that you paid they denied access? That would be against laws afaik

>From the perspective of the company he was scamming them by not paying for a previously agreed service.

How could I have possibly scammed them by providing them money while not availing of the service?

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#124
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law Haha, yeah sure. What other fairy tales you gonna tells us next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens#2005_and_continuing:_w... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirecard_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmalat_bankruptcy_timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus#Bribery_allegations https…

Thank you for your brilliant demonstration of survivorship bias. How many people were punished for Enron? For the subprime crisis? Etc. In the US, you just give a little money for the president's ballroom and you are pardoned. Or you settle out of court because your justice system is crap.

The CEO of Enron was convicted and died two months before sentencing and the COO got 12 years.

Interestingly the chief accountant of Enron ended up getting a job in Europe after he got out of prison.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law, as opposed to the U.S where breaking the law is just a matter of paying some $ to the grifter in chief? I always find it funny when Europeans being proactive about that sort of stuff is somehow a bad thing from Americans point of view. Like wanting decent human rights and not having to bend over to megacorps is something we should not have. Though, if th…

[flagged]

Paris was a shithole 40 years ago, too. It's only free speech if the .gov says so.p Rapists get set free in all countries all the time.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#126

These are just signs of this market maturing. For a lot of business customers, EU based hosting is not optional. That includes models. Routing requests via API endpoints in the US is not really acceptable. And anything involving privacy sensitive data of course needs to be handled properly. Sam Altman pinky swearing to be nice doesn't quite cut it in terms of hard guarantees. EU based legal entities and strong compli…

> For a lot of business customers, EU based hosting is not optional They still use US clouds that can have information pulled by the US government.

FTA:

> So Mistral is developing its own data centers, starting with one outside Paris. Mensch projects it will have 200 megawatts of capacity by the end of 2027. Power from France’s state-owned nuclear plants will help, but the buildout could still cost an estimated $5 billion. Mensch tapped oil-rich Abu Dhabi and reportedly sought debt financing to help pay for it.

Though to your point it won't be running until 2027.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#127
post #38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use their API for several models, both for personal and professional use. I think their approach (smaller, specialised models that are well-adapted for specific tasks) is a very good fit for how I work. And even the more general-purpose ones, like the chat model, just... refreshingly good in a lot of ways. My "ruthless review" prompt, which I use for, well, ruthless, guided reviews of early technical drafts, has go…

That ruthless review prompt seems interesting, would you be willing to share it? I've been trying to have Claude act as a reviewer for me and it feels like it never will disagree.

It's very hard to untangle it from the rest of its context (the prompt is built dynamically, from a lot of parts, some project-specific, some specific to my preferences, some built from interaction history), so I can't really share it. In any case, I don't think it's some specific prompt engineering sorcery I'm doing, it's not like I've spent any real time refining it or experimenting with various magical incantations. It's probably just some model features making it more amenable to the kind of instructions that are relevant in these cases (directness, questioning trade-offs, thoroughness etc.). My chatbot swears equally graphical in review prompts and news summarizing prompts so I'm pretty sure I'm not tickling the machine just right :)

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#128
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tremendous amounts of inference capacity become open for pennies on the dollar. They can't be operated for pennies on the dollar, though. The likely current status is that these products are subsidized to disregard model cost, and part of the operating cost. If the bubble bursts, inference that can't be made profitable when factoring in operating costs will be scraped, not sold for pennies.

I don't necessarily agree that's likely, but is it even the case that Mistral is more expensive than GPT or Claude? My understanding is that it's cheaper, which means it would fare worse in the scenario you're describing, unless they've perfectly calibrated the quality-cost tradeoff better than any American company.

All they have to do to survive is have enough cash flow to pay for their operating costs.

By providing specialized long-term services to corporate clients, they are securing exactly that.

Re: Mistral built a $14B AI empire by not being American

#129
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we keep moving the goalposts you can make any argument

What goalposts? Your sitting president, himself a conman is pardoning fraudsters left and right while he and his family enrich themselves with public money and extortion.

Shhhh, don't tell them, it'll be funnier at the end.
Post reply on HN