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America's Geothermal Breakthrough

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Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#121

Post by ksec »

wesapien wrote: post #109
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I worked on geothermal control systems a decade or so back. There are some less obvious applications for geothermal that reduce electric use (as opposed to generating electricity). The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned undergrou…

One of the problems with the data center boom is its use of fresh water. How does geo-thermal plants use water and how much?

I dont know why this keeps coming up? It is a closed loop system. The water aren't used at all.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#122

Post by hvb2 »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #92
zdragnar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pretty significant upfront cost in getting them drilled, and many homes need the vertical drilling if they don't have sufficient yard space for a horizontal system. It gets harder if you have your own septic drain field too, as that will complete for yard space. The cost difference is pretty massive- 3-10x for a vertical system. If you live in a city or a suburb with tiny lots, that's your only option thoug…

Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient and just plain better these days too. It used to be that if the air was below 40F you couldn't heat your house with a heat pump. Now, you can heat your house even when it's -10F

> Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient

Citation needed?

Efficient how? I'm sure a heat pump designed for a narrow range of input temperatures AND working with water which can transport a lot more heat should easily be more efficient.

https://www.energysage.com/heat-pumps/compare-air-source-geo... Seems to disagree

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#123

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

Animats wrote: post #91
lostlogin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you want to generate power, you need to get down to where temperatures can boil water. That's deeper than most oil wells. That’s going to be very dependant on location. Here in NZ there are regions where water is boiling at surface level. According to the below, 18% of our power is produced with it. https://www.eeca.govt.nz/insights/energy-in-new-zealand/rene...

"New Zealand has an abundant supply of geothermal energy because we are located on the boundary between two tectonic plates. ... Total geothermal electricity capacity in New Zealand stands at over 900 MW, making us the fifth largest generator of geothermal in the world. It has been estimated that there is sufficient geothermal resource for another 1,000 MW of electricity generation." That's not all that much. That to…

Is there any earthquake risk from drilling near tectonic plates?

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#124

Post by justnoise »

ksec wrote: post #121
wesapien wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems with the data center boom is its use of fresh water. How does geo-thermal plants use water and how much?

I dont know why this keeps coming up? It is a closed loop system. The water aren't used at all.

Many data centers use evaporative cooling.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#125

Post by energy123 »

AngryData wrote: post #120
typon wrote: post #100

What is the point of building energy outside of solar farms? I'm sincerely asking

An inexhaustible 24/7 production capable plant has many advantages over solar and maintaining large most types of battery banks.

Cost is like 90-99% of what matters. Last year, China installed 300GW of new renewables and 0GW of geothermal, despite geothermal being "an inexhaustible 24/7 production capable".

Geothermal will compete with solar if they can get the cost low enough. I hope they succeed!

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#126

Post by gambiting »

hunterpayne wrote: post #50
gambiting wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how economical that is, but just as an anecdote - the town I'm from in Poland has district heating to all single family homes, town of about 20k people. And coincidentally, I now live in the UK and a new estate near me has district heating to all the houses they are building, not apartment blocks. So it must make some sense to someone, or they wouldn't be outfitting 100+ houses this way.

"I don't know how economical that is" Sure you do. Think about it. Its just drilling a hole and making electricity from the heat. We have been able to do this for a very long time. So if people aren't really doing it much, its not economical. If it was now becoming economical, the article would describe some new way of doing it that makes it economical. The article doesn't, so you "know" it isn't. PS This has been tr…

>>Sure you do. Think about it. Its just drilling a hole and making electricity from the heat

...what? What does that have to do with district heating? The one in Poland is coal fired, the one in the UK is electric.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#127

Post by defrost »

hunterpayne wrote: post #66
tzs wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentives in the Inflation Reduction Act greatly increased US domestic battery production capacity. It went from 7 GWh per year in 2023 to 70 GWh per year in early 2026 and is expected to reach 1400 GWh per year by the end of the decade. Domestic solar cell manufacturing was also growing rapidly, although I believe that may have slowed due to Trump. I don't know about wind turbine production because I can't conv…

1400 GWh of Li-ion batteries would require consuming the entire planets known Li reserves plus a bit more.

Got a citation from mining monthly for that?

Meanwhile, on the supply side:

  The sector has also seen its share of oversupply and price drops this year, with surprising reports of a fall below $50/kWh for two-hour battery systems made in China. Nameplate battery manufacturing capacity in China alone reached 2.2 TWh at the end of 2023, almost double the 1.2 TWh of global demand that analyst BloombergNEF (BNEF) is expecting for 2024.
~ https://www.ess-news.com/2025/01/02/the-battery-boom-of-2024...

That's 2,200 GWh produced in China in 2023.

For past / present / future data on Lithium-ion battery manufacturing capabilities, see: Lithium-ion battery manufacturing capacity, 2022-2030 from the IEA - https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/lithium-ion-b...

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#128

Post by ninalanyon »

wood_spirit wrote: post #5
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I worked on geothermal control systems a decade or so back. There are some less obvious applications for geothermal that reduce electric use (as opposed to generating electricity). The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned undergrou…

In the nordics it is common to have ground source heat pumps (brine in closed circuit pipe or bore hole) that are run backwards in summer to cool the house while actually assisting in storing heat back in the ground to extract in the winter. It’s a bit like regenerative breaking on electric cars.

No it's not. It exists but it's certainly not common for individual dwelling to use ground source heat pumps, at least in Norway. It is more common in Sweden[1] but still far less common than air source and over 90% of heat pump installations in Norway are air source[2].

The only ground source installations I can think of in Norway serve large office buildings and similar. The largest heat pump installation I know of in Norway is actually a third kind: water source[3]. It takes heat from the Drammen river to provide heat for a district heating system and for keeping the town centre clear of ice in the winter as well as supplying the new hospital with heat.

I imagine that the rest of the Nordic region is similar.

See:

[1] http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JR...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221313882...

[3] https://energiteknikk.net/2023/11/drammen-fjernvarme-storst-...

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#129

Post by Y-bar »

zdragnar wrote: post #84
jjtheblunt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a new in 1988 house in Champaign, Illinois, USA that used the same system, and i mention that because it was a normal modern house, and it's the only one i've heard of with that system. It seems so smart.

There's a pretty significant upfront cost in getting them drilled, and many homes need the vertical drilling if they don't have sufficient yard space for a horizontal system. It gets harder if you have your own septic drain field too, as that will complete for yard space. The cost difference is pretty massive- 3-10x for a vertical system. If you live in a city or a suburb with tiny lots, that's your only option thoug…

I paid about EUR 4500 for a 114 meter drill hole including installation of brine (ethanol in my case actually) and removal of spoils. My 8kW heat+water pump was about EUR 7000.

I can spec out a gas burner for about EUR 4000 and a central AC for EUR 5000, but I bet the efficiency of the ground source heater would quickly trump the cost of buying gas regularly.

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