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As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

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Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#121

Post by tracker1 »

Timon3 wrote: post #106
tracker1 wrote: post #79

As sad as these things are... one needs to also accept, that as capable as we are of changing our environments, from transportation, to air conditioning, we do not control all the things. We have and continue to over-fish in a lot of places, and I have deep concerns over farmed fish and the impact of less than natural foods on our own health. A lot of the changes to the waters is well outside human control... there's…

Of course this is inside human control - we are directly responsible for what's happening! Unless you're one of the people who are willingly putting their head in the sand, I don't understand how it makes sense to act like this is still in question.

Okay, you're responsible... why haven't you stopped it?

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#122

Post by zardo »

Geee wrote: post #109
vivzkestrel wrote: post #6

- stupid question - if everyone on the entire planet went 100% vegan from tomorrow, will carbon emissions really go down by 60%?

Animals or humans don't cause any net emissions, because the same carbon was captured from the atmosphere in the first place. No new carbon is added. Also, the same amount of methane is broken down in the atmosphere as is created. Increasing co2 is only possible by burning fossil fuels.

No new carbon would be added if we were talking about hunting buffalo on the great plains. But we're talking about industrial agriculture and each calorie produced does have associated fossil fuel emissions

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#123

Post by [deleted] »

alluro2 wrote: post #61
concinds wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming "profiteering and ever-increasing growth" is way too easy. Can any legislature get away with dramatically increasing taxes on meat, fish, gas, and plane tickets, just at a level high enough to account for environmental externalities? Even dictatorships couldn't get away with it because it would cause too much unrest.

Why do you think that is? Hint: taxing people buying food, which is getting worse and worse, while the top 0.01% gets more and more rich and keeps making it worse, is maybe not the solution people should embrace that you think it is...

[deleted]

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#124

Post by Jabbles »

Geee wrote: post #109
vivzkestrel wrote: post #6

- stupid question - if everyone on the entire planet went 100% vegan from tomorrow, will carbon emissions really go down by 60%?

Animals or humans don't cause any net emissions, because the same carbon was captured from the atmosphere in the first place. No new carbon is added. Also, the same amount of methane is broken down in the atmosphere as is created. Increasing co2 is only possible by burning fossil fuels.

Talking in terms of "carbon" is misleading. Methane is much more potent than CO2. I don't know why you think methane is broken down at the same rate as it is added.

- Cattle release methane

- Forests are burnt to make room for crops/grazing

- Fertilizer for crops for cattle produces nitrous oxide

I do not claim this adds up to 60%, but to suggest it is zero is incorrect.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#125

Post by concinds »

alluro2 wrote: post #61
concinds wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming "profiteering and ever-increasing growth" is way too easy. Can any legislature get away with dramatically increasing taxes on meat, fish, gas, and plane tickets, just at a level high enough to account for environmental externalities? Even dictatorships couldn't get away with it because it would cause too much unrest.

Why do you think that is? Hint: taxing people buying food, which is getting worse and worse, while the top 0.01% gets more and more rich and keeps making it worse, is maybe not the solution people should embrace that you think it is...

Cool, you can fix the wealth inequality. But you also need to fix the excessive consumption of beef, fuel, and every other CO2-emitting good, whether consumed by you or by the "top 0.001%". You can't use "wealth inequality" as an excuse to delay action on climate change. Those goods' consumption needs to go down.

Fuel is trickier and requires investments and a transition period, but a beef tax would be trivial, and there are infinite substitute goods available.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#126

Post by throwaway27448 »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #118
throwaway27448 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do volunteer, donate, and advocate and I won't use my extreme pessimism as an excuse not to engage. I think it is ok to not engage. The idea that you can impact the world is largely an artifact of modernity. In reality, capital is more than happy to let you take the blame for its own suicidal tendencies.

> I think it is ok to not engage. I understand what you're saying. I appreciate the thought behind it. But in the end, I do not agree. I cannot be certain where my actions will and won't ultimately help accrue to impact; the pebble knows not the impact that its ripples will have. If you care about something, I think you should be involved.

> If you care about something, I think you should be involved.

You're free to overthrow your government and instate humanitarian policies, but a pebble is not inclined to roll uphill.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#127

Post by Geee »

Jabbles wrote: post #124
Geee wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals or humans don't cause any net emissions, because the same carbon was captured from the atmosphere in the first place. No new carbon is added. Also, the same amount of methane is broken down in the atmosphere as is created. Increasing co2 is only possible by burning fossil fuels.

Talking in terms of "carbon" is misleading. Methane is much more potent than CO2. I don't know why you think methane is broken down at the same rate as it is added. - Cattle release methane - Forests are burnt to make room for crops/grazing - Fertilizer for crops for cattle produces nitrous oxide I do not claim this adds up to 60%, but to suggest it is zero is incorrect.

Methane is broken down with a few years delay, but still the same amount is breaking down as is produced. Think of a long pipe which takes a few years to travel through and it's fed at a constant rate. Total methane in the atmosphere stays constant.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#128

Post by Timon3 »

Geee wrote: post #127
Jabbles wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking in terms of "carbon" is misleading. Methane is much more potent than CO2. I don't know why you think methane is broken down at the same rate as it is added. - Cattle release methane - Forests are burnt to make room for crops/grazing - Fertilizer for crops for cattle produces nitrous oxide I do not claim this adds up to 60%, but to suggest it is zero is incorrect.

Methane is broken down with a few years delay, but still the same amount is breaking down as is produced. Think of a long pipe which takes a few years to travel through and it's fed at a constant rate. Total methane in the atmosphere stays constant.

But that still means you have a couple of years with a higher concentration of methane, and given the higher impact this is obviously very relevant, no?

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#129

Post by throwanem »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #103
throwanem wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will live to regret your moral cowardice. Specifically, you'll regret the wrong choices it leads you to make. The guilt you feel now is a warning. Don't stay lazy, or that guilt will eventually be augmented by shame.

All we can do is aim to be better, to aim to be perfect is putting obstacles in your own path for your own smug sense of satisfaction, while the world still burns the same. Unless you can change the many, including those most intransigent, you have to respect that just changing yourself, is something you only do for yourself. I don't see how its "moral cowardice" for me to own a car so I can ferry around my 84 year o…

I really don't have to respect that.

If we're to talk about what you're ashamed of, why bring up the least blameworthy examples you can find? Do you want to be shriven, or enabled?

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