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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#121

Post by rpdillon »

halfdan wrote: post #17
pech0rin wrote: post #10

This is insanely dumb. Everyone knows that smoking is bad for you. So if people want to do it anyway who cares. I understand the cafe and indoor space bans but not allowing anyone to do it seems stupid. I don’t smoke but UK has really gone off the deep end recently with social controls, what is the point?

I, a non-smoker, would like to not walk through clouds of smoke.

When they came for the smokers, I did not care, because I was not a smoker.

There's a general trend of trying to "optimize" society to remove all ills, and once you apply that logic, there's no clear stopping point. Once you ban sale of tobacco products, you can use that same logic to ban anything, from Cheetos to skydiving to motorcycles.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#122

Post by jpfromlondon »

LtWorf wrote: post #45
mytailorisrich wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a separate category, that's the general principle in a free society: There is a limit to "doing what you want" when it impacts others/imposes on them. That's why smoking is already heavily regulated in order to limit and minimise the impact that your choice has on others.

In sweden it's forbidden to smoke at public transport stops. Nobody cares though so you often have to choose between cancer or getting soaked.

in the UK you cannot smoke on public transport or inside buildings, and this is strictly adhered to.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#124

Post by Jamesbeam »

That will for sure go well.

Funding the "biggest threat the UK ever faced" according to Phil Mykytiuk, who has spent a decade mapping tobacco crime gangs in the north of England with a customer base of 10-11 million potential customers and rising every year, will surely cut heavily into their profits…

It gets tiresome to buy a new house every week because the dry wall is full with cash, again.

"Yo, psst, want to buy some Lucky Strikes? You know what will go really well with that? This white widow super cheese, and if you feel tired I also got some soap for you, first line on the house." "You’re afraid your parents might smell it? I can get you a discount on this perfume, smells like Aventus but way cheaper."

-

"Mykytiuk, though, believes the multiple layers of crime behind cheap, illegal tobacco are escaping scrutiny, allowing crime gangs – emboldened by the lack of deterrent – to expand their power base right under the noses of enforcement.

Having witnessed Kurdish tobacco gang members invest heavily in property and high street businesses here in the UK, he’s now seeing evidence of them moving into cannabis farms.

“But forget drugs,” he says. “Drugs are yesterday. The big thing is tobacco. These gangs are becoming the most capable criminals in this country. Right now it’s the biggest threat we’ve ever faced.”

https://www.vice.com/en/article/criminal-gangs-are-making-bi...

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#125

Post by defrost »

lokar wrote: post #104
noduerme wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily You must live in a democracy. If you ever lived in a country where the government curtailed freedoms by fiat, you'd understand that it can and it will. I happened to be living in Vietnam when the government just randomly decided one day that smoking would be banned everywhere, effective immediately. You might think that's simpl…

This seems really out of context

They appear to have taken a specific reference to "the (UK (implied by context)) government" as an arbitrary generic reference to any government on the planet.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#127

Post by X0Refraction »

squigz wrote: post #22
gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

From the government's perspective, this may (or may not) be silly. But putting that aside, if a citizen supports banning cigarettes for people born after a certain date, but not alcohol, that certainly seems hypocritical to me.

I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that they're a different degree of societal problem. I think there's quite a few people who drink on special occasions, but not every week or even every month (I'm one of them).

I think it's very rare though for a smoker to not smoke several a day. A friend of mine was that rare breed and would buy a 10 pack occasionally - usually on a Friday and it'd be gone by Monday - but that would maybe be once a month. I think every other smoker I've met though goes through that amount every day.

So it seems to me the average smoker is much more likely to become a burden on a nationalised health service than the average drinker. There's more to this of course, smoking to excess generally doesn't increase the chances of you getting into a fight like drinking does for some people, but social pressure counters that partially too.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#128

Post by rafram »

Canada wrote: post #120

This is the kind of action that really requires a referendum.

I completely disagree. Obviously people individually want to smoke - nicotine makes them feel good! - and there's a good chance they would vote to preserve that "right," but smoking is bad for society and we would unambiguously be better off if it didn't exist.

One of the principal jobs of government is to stand for the good of the collective against individual selfishness.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#129

Post by neonstatic »

gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

Cigarettes are not incorporated into the UK culture the way alcohol is. Drinking at a pub is sacred to them.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#130

Post by jpfromlondon »

rt56a wrote: post #85
flowerthoughts wrote: post #83

In a few years, they'll realize that the savings from public health care now requires an an even higher amount of money poured into the police, customs and justice systems to enforce it. Because suddenly, there are these weirdos trying to sell it in dark places. Who could anticipate that? But that's for another government to deal with, of course. Not our problem. Oh, and the future government will be happy to announc…

> an even higher amount of money poured into the police Given the massive cost smoking imposes on the health sector, I find it hard to believe that's remotely possible.

2B if you tease the reality out of the oft misreported figure, and the annual rake from smoking is 8-10B so it is profitable to maintain it.
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