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The peril of laziness lost

bcantrill.dtrace.org

121–130 of 148 posts

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#121

Similar to bragging about LOC, I have noticed in my own field of computational fluid dynamics that some vibe coders brag about how large or rigorous their test suites are. The problem is that whenever I look more closely into the tests, the tests are not outstanding and less rigorous than my own manually created tests. There often are big gaps in vibe coded tests. I don't care if you have 1 million tests. 1 million e…

The trick is crafting the minimal number of tests.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#122
post #21

German General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord (a high-ranking army officer in the Reichswehr/Wehrmacht era): “I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent — their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy — they make up 90% of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who i…

And that's why Peter Gibbons is clearly management material!

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not blaming you here, but I think "automatons" may be inaccurate. A lot of the jobs that seem menial would be utterly bollixed if done by an automaton. The people continually handle the edge cases and tiny discrepancies between formal procedures and how things actually work. Consider the many stories of people experience AI bots when they try to get vendor support for products. "Please let me talk to a real perso…

Anyone doubting this need only spend 15 minutes watching people using the self-checkout lines at the grocery store to see how good a good checkout person is...

I was like, I went from waiting for a cashier who's an absolute ninja with the scanning machine, to fumbling with my own groceries and fighting with GLaDOS about whether it was actually placed in the bag, or how much it weighs vs. how much it's supposed to weigh. Which usually ends with me waiting for an attendant anyway. And this is supposed to be a win?

Self checkout is the face of enshittification.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#124

Similar to bragging about LOC, I have noticed in my own field of computational fluid dynamics that some vibe coders brag about how large or rigorous their test suites are. The problem is that whenever I look more closely into the tests, the tests are not outstanding and less rigorous than my own manually created tests. There often are big gaps in vibe coded tests. I don't care if you have 1 million tests. 1 million e…

The “red/green TDD” (ie. actual tdd) and mutation testing (which LLMs can help with) are good ways to keep those tests under control.

Not gonna help with the test code quality, but at least the tests are going to be relevant.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#125
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a person clearly grieving that his hard earned knowledge in his field is now not that valuable. He's co-founder and CTO of his own company, so I think he's doing fine in his field.

It doesn't change the fact that much of what (I think) he prides in himself in is getting commoditised.

Yes, people can continue to use their commoditized AI girlfriends while others prefer real ones.

Jesus Christ, even AI websites are just garbage, and that is the lowest form of programming.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#126
post #59

Hard disagree with the initial assumption: Abstractions do not make a system simpler. Note: I would have added usually but I really do mean always.

I’m curious what you think an abstraction is. Even running “ls” involves several layers of abstraction: a shell, a process (abstracts memory), a thread (abstracts CPU)… you think it would be simpler if you had to deal with all that to list a directory (another abstraction)? Even bits are an abstraction over analog voltage levels.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#127

Similar to bragging about LOC, I have noticed in my own field of computational fluid dynamics that some vibe coders brag about how large or rigorous their test suites are. The problem is that whenever I look more closely into the tests, the tests are not outstanding and less rigorous than my own manually created tests. There often are big gaps in vibe coded tests. I don't care if you have 1 million tests. 1 million e…

It's a struggle to get LLMs to generate tests that aren't entirely stupid. Like grepping source code for a string. or assert(1==1, true) You have to have a curated list of every kind of test not to write or you get hundreds of pointless-at-best tests.

> You have to have a curated list of every kind of test not to write

This should be distilled into a tool. Some kind of AST based code analyser/linter that fails if it sees stupid test structures.

Just having it in plain english in a HOW-TO-TEST.md file is hit and miss.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#128
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where my fellow ninety-percenters at?

I think we put too much negative emphasis on people who aren’t as gifted intellectually. In reality, the world works because of human automotons, honest people doing honest work; living their life in hopefully a comforting, complete and wholesome way, quietly contributing their piece to society. There is no shame in this, yet we act as though there is.

Doing a repetitive(ish) task day in day out requires a specific type of person, I'm not one of them.

But I do know multiple, just in my immediate familuy. People who graduated from school, went to the local factory and worked there for half a century before retiring. Pretty much the same job, moving widgets from A to B etc, nothing massively complex. I do respect the people who can do it and especially the ones who make it look effortless and efficient - even a bit performative.

Also because my home town is a "factory town", guess where I worked for my summer job(s). I wanted to shove a hot poker in my ear just to get away from the tedium after the first day. On the second day I was thinking how to automate the damn process to not involve me in it at all :D

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#129
post #17

I have noticed LLMs have a propensity to create full single page web applications instead of simpler programs that just print results to the terminal. I've also struggled with getting LLMs to keep spec.md files succinct. They seem incapable of simplifing documents while doing another task (e.g. "update this doc with xyz and simply the surrounding content") and really need to be specifically tasked at simplifying/summ…

My rule of thumb is that documentation for AIs can be written by AIs

Documentation for humans should be written by humans. Or at the very least read through and signed off on by humans.

Re: The peril of laziness lost

#130

Bragging about loc was silly before ai. Now it’s not only silly, but also makes you look like a huge tool.

I have no idea what the loc of any of my projects are. Why would I care?

And why do other people care? It's not "line of code" is an uniform measurement you can apply between languages.

A 1 loc Perl program can do more things than a 1000 lines of Enterprise-grade Java.

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