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Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

instantdb.com

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Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#121

Post by jauntywundrkind »

monooso wrote: post #84
fny wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not code in assembly? I kid but any reason you can think of applies to app development too. 1. Good abstractions decrease verbosity and improve comprehension 2. Raw HTML/CSS/JS are out of distribution just like assembly (no one builds apps like this) 3. Humans need to understand and audit it 4. You'll waste time and tokens reinventing wheels This inuitively makes sense. LLMs mimic human behavior and thought, so f…

> Raw HTML/CSS/JS are out of distribution just like assembly (no one builds apps like this) Plenty of people build apps with vanilla CSS and JS (and HTML is just HTML). It's a really nice way to work. Here are a few links to get you started. https://dev.37signals.com/modern-css-patterns-and-techniques... https://simonwillison.net/2025/May/31/no-build/ https://bradfrost.com/blog/post/raw-dogging-websites/

It's also a good opportunity to use the platform, to get layering naturally.

> I keep seeing Lit gain adoption in gen-UI.

> Lit's plain JS/TS, no-build-required approach is easy for LLMs to generate and for harnesses to integrate.

> If a gen-UI pre-viewer can load standard JS modules, it can load Lit components. No custom Angular, Vue, or Svelte toolchain integration needed.

- Lit author, Justin Fagnani, https://bsky.app/profile/justinfagnani.com/post/3mj376ogels2...

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#122

Post by jauntywundrkind »

stopachka wrote: post #37
pugio wrote: post #34

Thanks, this might be exactly what I'm looking for. I see you have support for vanilla js and svelte, but it's unclear whether you can get all the same functionality if you don't use React. Is React the only first class citizen in this stack?

Thank you. > Is React the only first class citizen in this stack? Each system gets the same functionality. We centralize the critical logic for the client SDK in "@instantdb/core". React, Svelte, Tanstack, React Native et al are wrappers around that core library. The one place where it's lacking a bit is the docs. We have specific docs for each library, but a lot of other examples assume React. We are improving this…

Any thoughts on a potential Tanstack DB integration?

I love tanstack's rich front end. Ya'll have quite an amazing system, and I'm wondering if there's any thoughts on how perhaps your pretty substantial front end side might be adapted to tanstack DB. https://github.com/TanStack/db/tree/main/packages

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#123

Post by jauntywundrkind »

dewey wrote: post #92

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't using the most popular open source framework + most popular open source database be a much better fit as there's much more training data and you don't lock yourself into yet another framework? I'd just go with Rails + Postgres and have all the documentation and options open to me.

I disagree. The LLM seems extreme adaptable to me. Making the architecture that makes the most sense, that expresses the architecture the best, is going to be a soaring victory over bandwagoning every time.

It's not at all about picking popular tech: that's what the limitation used to be. Now it's all about finding the best winds to have at your back.

Reducing your app code complexity, having a better defined more cohesive base to build upon will reduce reasoning costs & token count. It will also make it easier to assess what you+agent have built too.

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#124

Post by jauntywundrkind »

nezaj wrote: post #103
patwolf wrote: post #94

I'm currently working on an app that needs offline support, and I wish I had something like this when I started. One of our requirements though is to be able to completely host in our own infrastructure. I know this is open source, but it would be nice if there was a simple path to self hosting.

PR in progress! https://github.com/instantdb/instant/pull/2495

I'm confused by the messaging that instantdb has been open source... but we haven't been able to host it? What's the story here, and what's the change happening here?

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#125

Post by oofbey »

straygarr wrote: post #85
oofbey wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they’re logically separated. Thanks for explaining that. Now I’m certain nothing could possibly go wrong. /s

"logically separated" as opposed to "physically separated" (pretty rare in the Cloud world) If you want more details, read their open source codebase or ask them specifically what documentation would boost your confidence, instead of leaving snarky comments.

I would argue that saying the accounts are logically separated is a snarky comment. It’s akin to patting the reader on the head and saying “don’t you worry your pretty little head”. Logically separated says nothing. Distinct VMs are logically separated, containers are logically separated, as are storing data in different files which self-modifying PHP code which doesn’t check its inputs tries to keep distinct. It’s basically just saying their engineers do their best but any single bug leaks data. Which is better than saying their engineers don’t even try? Not really. It’s a completely empty statement.

Also, for people who actually care about security in the cloud, physically separated is not uncommon. Side channel attacks are real. Dedicated instances are not that hard if you really care about security.

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#126

Post by alecthomas »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #124
nezaj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PR in progress! https://github.com/instantdb/instant/pull/2495

I'm confused by the messaging that instantdb has been open source... but we haven't been able to host it? What's the story here, and what's the change happening here?

From skimming the linked PR it looks like it's all been open source, but has been tightly coupled to their deployed instance. The PR appears to be decoupling things completely by making all hard coded values configurable.

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#127

Post by nezaj »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #124
nezaj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PR in progress! https://github.com/instantdb/instant/pull/2495

I'm confused by the messaging that instantdb has been open source... but we haven't been able to host it? What's the story here, and what's the change happening here?

Always been able to host it! We’ve had docker compose instructions since open sourcing.

Instant has evolved quite a bit in the last 18 months. With all the new functionality self-hosting has become a bit more fiddly.

This PR is aimed at making the process for self-hosting even easier.

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#128

Post by stopachka »

oofbey wrote: post #125
straygarr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"logically separated" as opposed to "physically separated" (pretty rare in the Cloud world) If you want more details, read their open source codebase or ask them specifically what documentation would boost your confidence, instead of leaving snarky comments.

I would argue that saying the accounts are logically separated is a snarky comment. It’s akin to patting the reader on the head and saying “don’t you worry your pretty little head”. Logically separated says nothing. Distinct VMs are logically separated, containers are logically separated, as are storing data in different files which self-modifying PHP code which doesn’t check its inputs tries to keep distinct. It’s b…

My choice of the word "logically separated", was meant to specifically answer the question the reader asked:

> If someone else's account is compromised, how do I know I won't be?

If you have other questions, you can feel free to ask, and I'd be happy to answer in more detail.

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#129

Post by oofbey »

stopachka wrote: post #128
oofbey wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that saying the accounts are logically separated is a snarky comment. It’s akin to patting the reader on the head and saying “don’t you worry your pretty little head”. Logically separated says nothing. Distinct VMs are logically separated, containers are logically separated, as are storing data in different files which self-modifying PHP code which doesn’t check its inputs tries to keep distinct. It’s b…

My choice of the word "logically separated", was meant to specifically answer the question the reader asked: > If someone else's account is compromised, how do I know I won't be? If you have other questions, you can feel free to ask, and I'd be happy to answer in more detail.

HOW are they logically separated? Are there any layers to this security? Any standard established security boundaries like containers? Or is it just your app code doing its best not to have security bugs?

Re: Instant 1.0, a backend for AI-coded apps

#130

Post by monooso »

solumos wrote: post #109
monooso wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Raw HTML/CSS/JS are out of distribution just like assembly (no one builds apps like this) Plenty of people build apps with vanilla CSS and JS (and HTML is just HTML). It's a really nice way to work. Here are a few links to get you started. https://dev.37signals.com/modern-css-patterns-and-techniques... https://simonwillison.net/2025/May/31/no-build/ https://bradfrost.com/blog/post/raw-dogging-websites/

Plenty of people, but how many companies? Plenty of people bake bread from scratch without a mixer, but few (if any) bakeries do.

Companies are comprised of people.
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