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Robots eat cars

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Re: Robots eat cars

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A robot like Optimus will not be a household robot for years to come. Why? If it falls, it will crash into some kind of glas from doors to windows etc. If it falls it might crash a human or animal underneath it. It might trip on a toy or stairs and crash into a wall. Strong disagree here we have plenty of machinery that we use that could be very dangerous if it fails, but they just slap a disclaimer on it and that’s…

In a normal household? Like what? I have nothing compared to a 60kg robot who is moving around in my flat. Even in my daily life the only thing i can come up with, is a car. Nontheless, industry pays more, faster, has more generic basic use cases and higher incentive to buy.

We literally pipe in flammable gases into kitchens, and then burn them there. These fail a lot all the time. Clogged heaters kill people because of carbon monoxide poisoning and electric coil heaters burn down apartments. Pressure cookers are basically controlled bombs. People have hundred pound pitbulls in their houses and even though we trust them they’re technically inherently unpredictable. There are a lot of dangerous things in our homes that we accept and build guard rails around a robot doesn’t seem that much crazier.

Re: Robots eat cars

#122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea makes sense conceptually, but in reality as we observe it, the companies that make low volume luxury products are often the most profitable carmakers in the industry. BMW is the 2nd most profitable car company in the world and sells many mid/low volume vehicles like the 7 series. This theory of yours also doesn’t do very well to explain the Cybertruck. Why would Tesla launch a $90k truck when their goal was…

I don't think Tesla is a normal car company. If they actually wanted to compete with the luxury car makers they have the capital to do so. Even with the brand death, they could easily compete. https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers... > This theory of yours also doesn’t do very well to explain the Cybertruck. Why would Tesla launch a $90k truck when their goal was supposedly to get out of low vo…

(I promise I’m not intending to reply endlessly and generally be annoying I just still find the discussion interesting)

I think they are way more like a normal car company than they publicly admit. I make the argument that they are entirely like a normal car company, just a vertically integrated one like Hyundai/Kia.

They’d really like to have more upside than a normal car company due to their software and AI and robotics, but until the day they start selling those things to other companies it’s all unrealized.

Why wouldn't they want to compete with luxury automakers? It's the more profitable market segment. Every mass market car company selling a similarly high unit volume as Tesla has a luxury marquee because it's simple to reuse/modify the same platform, chuck in some more leather, massaging seats, and sound isolation materials, and toss on a fancier badge and marketing campaign.

The Cybertruck is indeed a strange halo car, but it really should have been a truck with more mainstream appeal. Elon psychosis is indeed highly responsible for that truck's failure, along with an inability to deliver the ballpark promises regarding price and range.

As of 2025 before the discontinuation of the Lightning F-150, the Cybertruck actually did not outsell the Lightning despite Ford essentially selling down remaining inventory, while the Silverado EV/Sierra EV (the best EV truck on the market for actual truck usability, IMO) is picking up the most momentum. GM is already outselling the Cybertruck:

https://ev.com/news/chevy-silverado-ev-sales-nearly-double-a...

Cybertruck is also going to in the future have the “Chrysler PT Cruiser” problem where it’s just about impossible to iterate on the styling for a second generation. Arguably they’ve already run through the Chrysler PT Cruiser lifecycle where it was incredibly cool on release but became something of a joke by the end of its run. Unfortunately with an overstyled car like that it’s difficult to predict whether it’ll be a timeless classic or…a PT Cruiser.

Re: Robots eat cars

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a normal household? Like what? I have nothing compared to a 60kg robot who is moving around in my flat. Even in my daily life the only thing i can come up with, is a car. Nontheless, industry pays more, faster, has more generic basic use cases and higher incentive to buy.

We literally pipe in flammable gases into kitchens, and then burn them there. These fail a lot all the time. Clogged heaters kill people because of carbon monoxide poisoning and electric coil heaters burn down apartments. Pressure cookers are basically controlled bombs. People have hundred pound pitbulls in their houses and even though we trust them they’re technically inherently unpredictable. There are a lot of dan…

The stove is in one place, it produces heat, we train everyone that this is dangerous including our kids (firefighters showed me in 1th grade what an oil fire is).

We added stinky smell to gas.

Pressure cookers are only used by 1-2 people in the kitchen and not that regularly. But a friend of mine actually burned himself through the steam when he opened it up.

The pitbull things is dangerous. But they do'nt run through window and if they fall down stairs, they won't kill someone.

Look we will see how long it will take but i do not think we will see household robots soon. Im confident we will see them in the industry on mass before we see them in real households in relevant numbers.

Re: Robots eat cars

#124
post #76
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think teslas issue is that they need the AI5 chip for robotaxi ops, the current chip just doesn’t cut it. So if they have batches end of 2026 and start optimizing the models, by mid 2027 volume production you might have robotaxis coming online at about 100k per month. Waymo currently has less than 10k cars on the road. Lots of ifs here. If they can enable hardware 4 for robotaxi ops then they can have 3m+ cars read…

My understanding is superficial, so do knock it down, not it seems to me that tesla insists on vision-only hour self driving, which vastly increases the requirement for ML. Whereas Waymo has a lower sum technology requirement by using both lidar and vision, and have moved faster. So when you say "tesla needs the AI5 chip", i hear the rider "...to avoid a public volte face". I suppose that bulky lidar modules are unde…

It might be that the Waymo sensor suite was key to launch; I don't have any actual knowledge. My impression though was that they basically wired in a large call center for years first to make decisions for the fleet, and have slowly narrowed the scope of those decisions. Elon definitely wasn't interested in staffing large call centers.

I also believe that Waymo relied on much more intensive mapping than Tesla does/did -- so you could imagine two really different graphs -- Waymo's quality and deployment starts higher, but it is perhaps capped against places they're willing to do the scanning, and by their labor Capex. They will be racing to lower the scanning requirements and lower the labor requirements. Meanwhile Tesla looks worse for a long time because they've bet on getting tech together for an 'everywhere' launch, and it's a J curve around quality -- useless at 3 9s, and very, very useful at 5 9s. If those are the actual dynamics, figuring out who will be the 'winner' needs the following strategy assessment:

1) A take on whether or not robotaxis are 'winner take all/most' (I propose they are not, switching cost for consumers is super low)

2) If you think both companies will get to 'good enough' a take on capital dynamics for at-scale launch (I think Tesla wins here, because Elon will rely on owner's capital for at-scale launch, or at least can if he wants to, while it seems very unlikely that Waymo will start selling their cars to individual operators at scale in a timely fashion)

3) An organizational assessment - if we assume that vision only ML will eventually work at all for 5 9s, can Waymo 'trim down' their data and labor stack faster than Tesla can scale up their vision-only ML?

Upshot - I wouldn't bet against Tesla being the dominant robotaxi in ten years. But I would be very surprised if it matters very much or they were the only one - eventually the stack will get commoditized. Tesla's solved almost all the hard problems of getting most of these on the road, except for that last 9 of reliability -- you'd have to really hate Elon to think they won't get there at all with the AI resources between SX/xAI and Tesla available.

Re: Robots eat cars

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best selling car in the world in 2025 was the Tesla Model Y, with a little over 1 million sold. ~350k total vehicles have been sold in 2026 as of April. https://www.focus2move.com/world-car-market/ , https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-first-quarter-2026-...

The Fremont plant doesn’t make Ys, only Xs and Ss. And no one is buying the latter two.

The Tesla Fremont Factory produces Model 3 and Model Y. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Fremont_Factory
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