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The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

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Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#121

Post by anthk »

hnlmorg wrote: post #89
anthk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare Limbo+Tk under Inferno with current C#/Java. Or C++ against Plan9C. We have impressive CPU's running really crappy software. Remember Claude Code asking 66GB for a damn CLI AI agent for something NetBSD under a Vax (real or physical) from 1978 could do with NCurses in miliseconds every time you spawn Nethack or any other NCurses tool/game. On speed, Forth for the ACE was faster than Basic running under the ZX…

Most dialects of BASIC actually had functions too. They just weren’t popularised because line numbers were still essential for line editing on home micros. > On speed, Forth for the ACE was faster than Basic running under the ZX80. So, it wasn't about using a text-parsed language. Forth and BASIC are completely different languages and you’re arguing a different point to the one I made too. Also I don’t see much value…

They were different but both came in-ROM and with similar storage options (cassette/floppy).

On Pascal, Delphi was used for tons of RAD software in the 90's, both for the enterprise and for home users with zillions of shareware (and shovelware). And Lazarus/FPC+SQLITE3 today is not bad at all.

On Lisp... it was used on niche places such as game engines, Emacs -Org Mode today it's a beast-, a whole GNU supported GNU distro (Scheme) and Maxima among others.

Still, the so called low-level C++ it's an example on things picking the wrong route. C++ and QT5/6 can be performant enough. But, for a roguelike, the performance on compiling it's atrocious and by design Go with the GC would fix a 90% of the problems and even gain more portability.

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#122

Post by a96 »

boptom wrote: post #34
socalgal2 wrote: post #26

Most games back then where small. An C64 only had 64k and most game didn't use all of it. An Atari 800 had max 48k. It wasn't until the 1200 that it went up. Both systems are cartridge based games, many of which were 8k. Honestly though, I don't read much into the sizes. Sure they were small games and had lots of game play for some defintion of game play. I enjoyed them immensely. But it's hard to go back to just a f…

The modern classic, Animal Well, is only 35mb in size! https://store.steampowered.com/app/813230/ANIMAL_WELL/

Wow, you could fit tens of those in one bit!

(sorry)

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#123

Post by a96 »

aaa_aaa wrote: post #23

I played the game. Music was exceptional.

It really was. I was just wondering if Last Ninja 2 (Amiga) was the first game I actually liked playing. I mostly hated old games and I still don't like most games. Particularly ones with twitchy controls or platforming. LN wasn't that easy and it was very linear, but it was still somehow incredibly fun. And the music and even the graphics were great.

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#124

Post by EvanAnderson »

bjt12345 wrote: post #120

I never figured out how they did the turtle graphics in this game. The C64 didn't have whole screen bitmaps, you could either use sprites or user defined character sets, neither of which made this straightforward. And the loading screens were also amazing, particularly for tape loading.

You might be thinking of another system (like the NES, perhaps), because the C64 has 160x100 and 320x200 bitmap modes.

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#126

Post by dfxm12 »

yurishimo wrote: post #118
rigonkulous wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BASIC 10Liner competition wants you to know that there is a growing movement of hackers who recognize the bloat and see, with crystal clarity, where things kind of went wrong ... https://basic10liner.com/ ".. and time and again it leads to amazingly elegant, clever, and sometimes delightfully crazy solutions. Over the past 14 editions, more than 1,000 BASIC 10Liners have been created — each one a small experiment…

That website seems to be gone now, unless it’s supposed to redirect to a sketchy German wix ad…

The website is there as of this comment. Yes there's a wix ad, but it seems normal (it just points to a wix sign up page) and not sketchy to me.

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#127

Post by steve_taylor »

bjt12345 wrote: post #120

I never figured out how they did the turtle graphics in this game. The C64 didn't have whole screen bitmaps, you could either use sprites or user defined character sets, neither of which made this straightforward. And the loading screens were also amazing, particularly for tape loading.

The C64 does have a couple of bitmap modes. The Last Ninja uses mode 3, which is multicolor bitmap mode. It occupies 9000 bytes including pixels (8000 bytes) and color RAM (1000 bytes).

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#128

Post by hnlmorg »

anthk wrote: post #121
hnlmorg wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most dialects of BASIC actually had functions too. They just weren’t popularised because line numbers were still essential for line editing on home micros. > On speed, Forth for the ACE was faster than Basic running under the ZX80. So, it wasn't about using a text-parsed language. Forth and BASIC are completely different languages and you’re arguing a different point to the one I made too. Also I don’t see much value…

They were different but both came in-ROM and with similar storage options (cassette/floppy). On Pascal, Delphi was used for tons of RAD software in the 90's, both for the enterprise and for home users with zillions of shareware (and shovelware). And Lazarus/FPC+SQLITE3 today is not bad at all. On Lisp... it was used on niche places such as game engines, Emacs -Org Mode today it's a beast-, a whole GNU supported GNU d…

I’m very aware of Lazarus, Delphi and Emacs. But they’re exceptions rather than industry norms.

And thus pointing them out misses the point I was making when, ironically, I was pointing out how you’re missing the original point of this discussion.

Re: The 1987 game “The Last Ninja” was 40 kilobytes

#129

Post by smcameron »

bjt12345 wrote: post #120

I never figured out how they did the turtle graphics in this game. The C64 didn't have whole screen bitmaps, you could either use sprites or user defined character sets, neither of which made this straightforward. And the loading screens were also amazing, particularly for tape loading.

The TI99/4a version of the Logo language which has turtle graphics used user defined characters to implement them. There were only (I think) 128 user definable characters, and when the turtle graphics had redefined all of them to create its output, it gave the user a message, "out of ink".
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