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Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#121

Post by lurquer »

palata wrote: post #57
outworlder wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's just a matter of wasting enough money for some people to have the time of their life. That's such a cynical viewpoint. We are not doing this so that astronauts can have fun. Yes, we have been screwing up our planet. On that note alone, we should develop capabilities to access resources beyond our planet. We could have made that same argument before we had the capability of launching satellites ("why are we was…

> That's such a cynical viewpoint. We are not doing this so that astronauts can have fun. Don't get me wrong: I would totally love to be in their shoes, I completely understand why they want to do it. > Nowadays, they are crucial This is the typical "we need to do it because it's hard, and we don't know what we will learn from it, and BTW there are things we developed for the space program that got into civilian use"…

> Off the top of your head, what technological advancements did the different space programs bring? Gemini? Apollo? Soyuz? The space shuttle?

Tang

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#122

Post by nicbou »

palata wrote: post #11

I grew up admiring the Apollo mission and the likes. Nowadays, I recognise that it is heavy engineering, but I am not so impressed by the fact that we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. In fact, we have had humans surviving in space for decades now. It's costing a lot, it's not bringing much. But more than that: we have much more important problems to solve, starting with our…

> at something that we already know we can do

Something that we know we could do. I think of it as the third act of a movie when the main character is pulling himself out of the gutter.

That being said, I agree with you. America has bigger, nearer problems to solve with that sort of money. It reminds me of Gil Scott-Heron's poem about how it feels to struggle while "whitey's on the moon". It was brilliantly used in First Man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVQuqQndsFA

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#123

Post by orwin »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #108
Gagarin1917 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I’m following. Do most people not care because of the environment? Because that’s certainly not the case. Most people don’t care about the environment either. Plus, do you not have any other interests besides the state of the world? No interest in entertainment or sports or tech news at all? I doubt that if you’re on HN. My bet is that you wouldn’t care even if the world was objectively better than ever.…

>Most people don’t care about the environment either. They will start caring when it stops feeding them.

By then it will be a bit late.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#124

Post by palata »

Gagarin1917 wrote: post #72
palata wrote: post #11

I grew up admiring the Apollo mission and the likes. Nowadays, I recognise that it is heavy engineering, but I am not so impressed by the fact that we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. In fact, we have had humans surviving in space for decades now. It's costing a lot, it's not bringing much. But more than that: we have much more important problems to solve, starting with our…

I’m not sure I’m following. Do most people not care because of the environment? Because that’s certainly not the case. Most people don’t care about the environment either. Plus, do you not have any other interests besides the state of the world? No interest in entertainment or sports or tech news at all? I doubt that if you’re on HN. My bet is that you wouldn’t care even if the world was objectively better than ever.…

> You’re just coming up with excuses for why you don’t care.

I do care, as in "it's really cool" and I wish I could do it, too. I grew up being passionate about Apollo and the ISS.

But then I realised that the ISS is extraordinarily expensive and really doesn't bring much (still I would love to go!).

Worse even: the more popular space programs get, the more likely it is that SpaceX and the likes succeed in commercialising space and polluting more and more while doing it.

And another thing I have realised is that other people passionate about human spaceflights usually either don't give a shit about the fact that we are destroying the conditions of our survival or don't understand how bad the situation is. Look at the comments here on this topic: when someone questions the fact that manned space missions are scientifically useful (nobody ever denies that they are super cool), they get downvoted very fast. Nobody ever engages in a constructive discussion of "why they may, actually, be useful", other than by saying "but look, a fraction of the money we put into space programs helped develop some things that we could have developed without the space program, but I want to believe that we may have not developed them or much slower".

I do have hobbies indeed, but they don't involve throwing away billions of taxpayer money.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#125

Post by palata »

fy20 wrote: post #94
palata wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's such a cynical viewpoint. We are not doing this so that astronauts can have fun. Don't get me wrong: I would totally love to be in their shoes, I completely understand why they want to do it. > Nowadays, they are crucial This is the typical "we need to do it because it's hard, and we don't know what we will learn from it, and BTW there are things we developed for the space program that got into civilian use"…

The Apollo program had a big impact on the development of integrated circuits, turning software engineering into a real discipline, and fly-by-wire technology. Could this have happened without? Probably yes, these technologies aready somewhat existed, but the program pushed them much harder than they would have done otherwise. Same thing for later space missions, they pushed technology to the limits of the time. A go…

> so it's unlikely we would have the same level of solar panels either.

I think you vastly underestimate the amount of work and money that have been put into photovoltaic panels outside the space programs.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#126

Post by ghighi7878 »

Gagarin1917 wrote: post #72
palata wrote: post #11

I grew up admiring the Apollo mission and the likes. Nowadays, I recognise that it is heavy engineering, but I am not so impressed by the fact that we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. In fact, we have had humans surviving in space for decades now. It's costing a lot, it's not bringing much. But more than that: we have much more important problems to solve, starting with our…

I’m not sure I’m following. Do most people not care because of the environment? Because that’s certainly not the case. Most people don’t care about the environment either. Plus, do you not have any other interests besides the state of the world? No interest in entertainment or sports or tech news at all? I doubt that if you’re on HN. My bet is that you wouldn’t care even if the world was objectively better than ever.…

A big difference from 1960s and 70s in US is that 60s and 70s were a time of hope. Today that hope is not there. I am a scientist and I am stoked about moon missions. But I can see why todays people won't care about it much. Today mesaaging around space feels like rich peoples hobby and war weapns more than science.

Just see how stoked people were about JWST

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#127

Post by palata »

MichaelRo wrote: post #96
palata wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's such a cynical viewpoint. We are not doing this so that astronauts can have fun. Don't get me wrong: I would totally love to be in their shoes, I completely understand why they want to do it. > Nowadays, they are crucial This is the typical "we need to do it because it's hard, and we don't know what we will learn from it, and BTW there are things we developed for the space program that got into civilian use"…

While I agree with the sentiment that sending manned missions to the Moon is kinda useless, unfortunately diverting those money to "noble purposes" is an utopia because that's not how things work. In practice if those billions don't fund NASA programs they go into making some billionaires richer, Oracle laying off 30,000 people to fund data centers that will be obsolete by the time they are ready and similar stuff. N…

Well NASA cut off on environment programs, I guess the money wouldn't have to go very far.

And to be fair, Artemis contributes to making some billionaires richer. Sending humans to space has always been a great PR stunt to convince the people that they should continue accepting that the taxpayer money gets used for space programs. Turns out that in 2026, space programs are more commercial and less about science. SpaceX is all about commercialising space and making... ahem... one billionaire richer.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#128

Post by tsoukase »

It is a major event but only in some terms:

1) it feels like a movie series, sensational, scientific and humane

2) comparing it with the previous attempt 5 decades ago leads to interesting conclusions about our technological progress and limits

3) it's almost useless and I didn't expect NASA and the Congress to pour billions for a 10-day ride

Wish them all good and safe return to home.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#129

Post by expedition32 »

ghighi7878 wrote: post #126
Gagarin1917 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I’m following. Do most people not care because of the environment? Because that’s certainly not the case. Most people don’t care about the environment either. Plus, do you not have any other interests besides the state of the world? No interest in entertainment or sports or tech news at all? I doubt that if you’re on HN. My bet is that you wouldn’t care even if the world was objectively better than ever.…

A big difference from 1960s and 70s in US is that 60s and 70s were a time of hope. Today that hope is not there. I am a scientist and I am stoked about moon missions. But I can see why todays people won't care about it much. Today mesaaging around space feels like rich peoples hobby and war weapns more than science. Just see how stoked people were about JWST

There's no scientific reason to go back to the moon though.

It's just American chest thumping. I am interested in space, I would prefer we are spamming drones to explore the solar system. But science is boring.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#130

Post by expedition32 »

happytoexplain wrote: post #8

Everything that has made my country great has been or is being destroyed. The life I have tirelessly worked for is a shadow of the life my parents and grandparents had. I realize we're going to (orbit) the moon, and I think it's great, but I'm tired. Why would I even talk about this thing?

The US is currently involved in a war that is directly impacting my life.

Not very interested in seeing Americans celebrate and do the usual jingoism to be honest.

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