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Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

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Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#121

Post by 0x3f »

pixl97 wrote: post #55
0x3f wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human law enforcement hallucinates all the time. This is a bit like a poor argument against self driving.

"Computer says no", look it up. Cars measure success by not hitting things. Cops measure success by number of people they arrest. Note, not the number of people found guilty, that's the prosecutor. Cops will gladly use a hallucinating computer system to beat the absolute fuck out of you with qualified immunity.

> Cops measure success by number of people they arrest.

Simply not true. Police KPIs tend to focus on crime rates.

Regardless, they can mistreat you with or without AI backing.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#122

Post by roenxi »

energy123 wrote: post #114
roenxi wrote: post #32

It is also a useful trick to keep in mind the opposite of critical thinking - following the herd. Just copying everyone around you is often a great strategy. So good that even if everyone around you are making mistakes it can still be the dominant strategy (there is a reason a lot of people who don't like war are cowed into silence when war fever descends). Most people are using it. That implies that it is ridiculous…

> the US hasn't seen a good outcome to a war since something like WWII Korean War, Panama, and Gulf War were rather successful, resulting in a (more) US-aligned and prosperous South Korea/Panama/Gulf. Without these wars, South Korea wouldn't exist, Panama would probably still be a dictatorship, Saddam Hussein would control Kuwait and the US would have significantly less influence among the GCC.

The Gulf war turned out to be a disaster, it set the US up for 30 years of moral humiliation and strategic degradation in the middle east. They're still fighting the same people, to this day! And slowly going bankrupt Soviet-style because of it. They'd be far better off in a counterfactual universe where they didn't get involved fighting people in the middle east; the Chinese strategy of simply investing the money in domestic industry has been far more effective.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#123

Post by Schiendelman »

pjc50 wrote: post #118
imtringued wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs got really good in the last two years. If you bought anything that wasn't a Tesla ten years ago you were faced with some pretty bad compromises if you insisted on driving an EV.

The original Leaf looks like a Nokia 3210 compared to a current-gen iPhone. The tech has been moving at high speed and continues to do so.

I don't think it's a tech issue. I have a Tesla, it's a few years old now, and it's still better than most of what legacy car makers produce. The tech has been mature for several years.

I think legacy car makers have been slow rolling. They might have to in order to allow their organizations and customers to adapt.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#124

Post by Schiendelman »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #113
pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

I looked into buying an EV but it turns out it would be a little over four times as expensive as running an old Landrover with a massive V8 engine. So I still run an old Landrover with a massive V8 engine.

Would you be willing to share your math?

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#125

Post by energy123 »

roenxi wrote: post #122
energy123 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US hasn't seen a good outcome to a war since something like WWII Korean War, Panama, and Gulf War were rather successful, resulting in a (more) US-aligned and prosperous South Korea/Panama/Gulf. Without these wars, South Korea wouldn't exist, Panama would probably still be a dictatorship, Saddam Hussein would control Kuwait and the US would have significantly less influence among the GCC.

The Gulf war turned out to be a disaster, it set the US up for 30 years of moral humiliation and strategic degradation in the middle east. They're still fighting the same people, to this day! And slowly going bankrupt Soviet-style because of it. They'd be far better off in a counterfactual universe where they didn't get involved fighting people in the middle east; the Chinese strategy of simply investing the money in…

"set the US up" is doing a lot of non-credible rhetorical heavy lifting. In no way did the first Gulf War predetermine the Iraq War, which is what you're trying to insinuate.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#126

Post by roenxi »

energy123 wrote: post #125
roenxi wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Gulf war turned out to be a disaster, it set the US up for 30 years of moral humiliation and strategic degradation in the middle east. They're still fighting the same people, to this day! And slowly going bankrupt Soviet-style because of it. They'd be far better off in a counterfactual universe where they didn't get involved fighting people in the middle east; the Chinese strategy of simply investing the money in…

"set the US up" is doing a lot of non-credible rhetorical heavy lifting. In no way did the first Gulf War predetermine the Iraq War, which is what you're trying to insinuate.

I'm going a bit further than insinuating, I think there is a link between the time Bush Sr & Cheney fought Saddam Hussein and the other time Bush Jr and Cheney fought Saddam Hussein. In the same place for largely the same reasons. The events connected. The main difference is as the internet took hold the Bush family had a much harder time covering up the fact that they were ruining their own country and eventually got forced out of presidential politics as the consequences of leaving them in command of the US military became apparent. Thank goodness for that too.

EDIT I saw that deleted comment; bit of a faux pas to respond I know but.. look, there was an invitation for you to cherry pick the most successful US military interventions after WWII. Korea is a great example. Panama too for all I know. But a Bush attacking Saddam Hussein's Iraq is not the hill to plan a defence on, the US policy there used to be one of the top 2 go-tos for US tactical success leading to strategic failure up until the unfolding Trump-Iran episode.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#127

Post by bluGill »

nostrademons wrote: post #74
bluGill wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned long ago (when my company decided they couldn't give me options because we were too big so they did these "I can't believe it isn't an option", which expired worthless): until cash is in my bank account it is just a promise waiting to be broken. If I want to invest I want it my choice. In any case, it is a bad idea to invest in the company you work for - unless you are high enough up in the company that you…

> In any case, it is a bad idea to invest in the company you work for I'd question this conventional wisdom, simply because you have a lot more information about the company as an employee than a random investor does, even if you are not in possession of things like financials that the SEC considers "material non-public information". Things like culture, intelligence of your coworkers, whether or not you're actually…

You have more information, but only in a small area. if there is fraud by the executives they will hide it from you. If a different division doing poorly bringing everyone down you won't know before anyone on the street. even in your own division you won't know all the important numbers, a great feature coming doesn't mean customes really want it, you might be sucked into thinking a useless vanity project is something customers care about.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#128

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Schiendelman wrote: post #124
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into buying an EV but it turns out it would be a little over four times as expensive as running an old Landrover with a massive V8 engine. So I still run an old Landrover with a massive V8 engine.

Would you be willing to share your math?

Okay, it immediately costs more to buy an EV than it does to run my existing car. The monthly payment to buy an EV is more than I spend on fuel.

Then I'd be paying roughly ten times as much for insurance, because it's a new and valuable car, and being "keyless" it cannot be secured in any meaningful way without locking it in a garage, which I don't have.

Because I don't have a garage or a driveway I can't park right at my house, so I would not be able to charge at home. So I'd have to park an EV up at the nearest charging point several miles away, cycle home, and then cycle back to the car to retrieve it. This would then be costing roughly the same per mile to charge it up as it costs per mile for propane (my car is dual-fuel).

That's before you add in the exorbitant cost of servicing an EV, which can only be done at a dealer.

All told, I'd be spending a grand a month to replace a vehicle that costs a couple of hundred a month, that - crucially - wouldn't allow me to actually do the things I need it to do.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#129

Post by [deleted] »

roenxi wrote: post #126
energy123 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"set the US up" is doing a lot of non-credible rhetorical heavy lifting. In no way did the first Gulf War predetermine the Iraq War, which is what you're trying to insinuate.

I'm going a bit further than insinuating, I think there is a link between the time Bush Sr & Cheney fought Saddam Hussein and the other time Bush Jr and Cheney fought Saddam Hussein. In the same place for largely the same reasons. The events connected. The main difference is as the internet took hold the Bush family had a much harder time covering up the fact that they were ruining their own country and eventually go…

[deleted]

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#130

Post by zigman1 »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #128
Schiendelman wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to share your math?

Okay, it immediately costs more to buy an EV than it does to run my existing car. The monthly payment to buy an EV is more than I spend on fuel. Then I'd be paying roughly ten times as much for insurance, because it's a new and valuable car, and being "keyless" it cannot be secured in any meaningful way without locking it in a garage, which I don't have. Because I don't have a garage or a driveway I can't park right…

> among people who like me can charge at home

OP said this, you clearly don't fall into this category. And if servicing an electric car costs more than servicing an old Landrover I will not eat for a week

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