Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

undark.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 454 posts

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#121

Post by AlexandrB »

yodsanklai wrote: post #108
TaupeRanger wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tells us nothing. People act like this is some big hypocrisy or revelation. First of all, Jobs DID allow his children to use iPads, but it was limited. People take a single quote from the Isaacson biography out of context, assuming that he never let his children have access to iPads at all, forever. Other interviews he gave talked about limiting access - like ALL families should do. Jobs was literally just parenti…

> We also limit access to sugary foods and other things that can be damaging in excess. Maybe you do, but not everybody does. 19.7% of American kids are obese. The hypocrisy is that tech executives promote and lobby for excessive use of their products (even manufacturing addiction), but know better for their kids.

[flagged]

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#122

Post by bko »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

I agree that we shouldn't have iPads and similar electronics in the classroom. But I would advise into reading too much into the societal beliefs of inventors and how their tech will play out.

Consider Lee de Forest, one of the early pioneers of radio. He expected radio to act almost like a moral and intellectual uplifter for society. He thought people would use it to essentially listen to religious sermons and educational lectures.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#123

Post by hbn »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #97
mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

It tells us nothing. People act like this is some big hypocrisy or revelation. First of all, Jobs DID allow his children to use iPads, but it was limited. People take a single quote from the Isaacson biography out of context, assuming that he never let his children have access to iPads at all, forever. Other interviews he gave talked about limiting access - like ALL families should do. Jobs was literally just parenti…

Not to mention the iPad was only on the market for a year and a half before Jobs passed, in which there was no time for real educational software with traction to make it into schools.

He was talking about a future he was aiming for. I know it's hard to remember the tech optimism we still had heading into 2010, but most people still viewed things as getting better at that time. When Jobs announced the iPad, the iPhone had been on the market for 2.5 years and we basically only saw the conveniences of how cool it was to be able to check Facebook on the go with a cool futuristic touchscreen experience.

It's really easy to see how misguided Jobs was with 15 years of hindsight.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#124

Post by jumpkick »

compounding_it wrote: post #95
hananova wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but they are experts in engineering their garbage to cause maximum damage.

Engineering or marketing ? I doubt Zuckerberg or Altman have much involvement in engineering after their products took off. After a certain point they were no longer engineers of their products.

This seems to be a distinction without a difference. The buck stops with them.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#126

Post by MSFT_Edging »

elminjo wrote: post #74
johanneskanybal wrote: post #69

It sounds good on paper (pun intended) but policy strikes again, "Can my kid bring home her math book so we can work on the parts she's struggling with?" No of course not it lives in a cupboard at school 90% of the time might get some screen shares from it.

this is a problem. we make photos of the pages. i think there should be always a digital option when you have a physical book.

It sounds like the major issue here is the access to information. It's not the fault of the medium but rather the IP rights around it. Books are expensive because the text book industry needs their cut. Schools need to protect the expensive books because children can and will impulsively throw one off a bridge on their walk home.

The digital editions are restricted due to IP, so you can't have an infinitely copyable version for reference at home to solve the issue of children being destructive sometimes. So you end up with the worst of both worlds.

We could theoretically teach kids to convert cubits to feet and give them a translated version of the same ancient egyptian geometry textbooks used to educate the architects of the pyramids. Triangles aren't new. Why has there not been an opensource/creative commons math textbook made available to all schools with a issues board for crowd sourcing correctness?

This could be done with discrete periods of history, sciences, math, etc. We really don't need the McGraw Hill 2026 Florida Patriot's edition of the 18th century American history textbook.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#128

Post by AlexandrB »

brookst wrote: post #111
Koshkin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents do not have to be "experts in chilhood development" to know what is best for their children. Especially experts in their fields like the manufacturing of alcohol, guns or other products universallly considered dangerous.

So, if parents can rely on a a century of more of science showing the negative impacts of guns, tobacco, and alcohol on children… they can rely on vibes and politicians for evidence of harm from screens? I’m not even arguing with you. I’m just disappointed in how quickly so many on HN throw out all pretense of being interested in data as soon as a personal hot button issue comes up. It’s human nature I guess, but sti…

Screens are harmful for adults too. Everyone knows this through the personal experience of doomscrolling hours of one's own life away. Why would they be any better for children?

Or do you imagine that there's a study out there that will reveal that arguing on Twitter with someone called Catturd2 is good for your mental health?

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#129

Post by Eldt »

brookst wrote: post #114
Argonaut998 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making an argument from authority too though. Even ignoring my point, these people have more insight than anyone into their own products and their harmful/beneficial nature.

No, I am making no such argument. I am saying that tech execs have no special knowledge, and their actions should not be used to inform one’s own opinions or social policy on the topic. There IS tons of data in this area. Please, do yourself a favor and read it (pay attention to the population of studies —- many use adults in their 30’s or older as proxies for children). You can absolutely find real data supporting y…

They quite literally have insider knowledge that others wouldn't

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#130

Post by al_borland »

Telemakhos wrote: post #48
mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

I think you are right, and your "bet" about Zuckerberg checks out, at least according to media reports about his family. Still, asking someone to draw an inference based on three pieces of evidence, of which two are a bet and an assumption, seems hasty.

It seems wise to be wary of a salesman who won’t let his family use the product they sell. This seems very common in the modern tech industry.
Post reply on HN