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Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

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Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#121

Post by Jarwain »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #120
tbossanova wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main is also an easier name for beginners. I’m old school and always got the comparison of master branch to master tapes and such things, but people new to this stuff wouldn’t necessarily have the same intuition about the name. Main is just clearer (for now). Similar to blacklist/whitelist. I had no context for either of those and it took me soooooo long to remember what they meant. Allowlist/denylist is just so much…

No, blacklist and whitelist are far superior because blacklist is a normal English word . It isn't even a term of art, programmers just adopted a word that already existed in the English language (and used whitelist by way of analogy). The argument that the new terms are better holds no water whatsoever. The old terms were superior.

How is "allowlist" or "denylist" not more clear to, say, someone for whom English is a second language?

Sure blacklist was already an English word, but it's not necessarily _common_, and the distinction between blacklist and whitelist is kinda arbitrary. If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it

Allowlist and denylist are clearer, in that the meaning is in more clear alignment with the words it's made up of.

The old terms just make more sense to those who are old enough to be used to it.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#122

Post by brailsafe »

Jarwain wrote: post #121
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, blacklist and whitelist are far superior because blacklist is a normal English word . It isn't even a term of art, programmers just adopted a word that already existed in the English language (and used whitelist by way of analogy). The argument that the new terms are better holds no water whatsoever. The old terms were superior.

How is "allowlist" or "denylist" not more clear to, say, someone for whom English is a second language? Sure blacklist was already an English word, but it's not necessarily _common_, and the distinction between blacklist and whitelist is kinda arbitrary. If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it Allowlist and denylist are clearer, in that the meaning is in more clear alignment with…

Allowlist/Denylist are clear and perhaps more specific, but blacklist/whitelist are not arbitrary, they're just using black in valid ways according to common English dictionaries, which is similar to how other languages use the word black, but it is less specific.

> If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it

Simply because black means different things depending on the context. Evil, invisible, mysterious, absence of light, sinister. It's not arbitrary because that's how the word black is commonly used.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#123

Post by kpil »

Jarwain wrote: post #121
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, blacklist and whitelist are far superior because blacklist is a normal English word . It isn't even a term of art, programmers just adopted a word that already existed in the English language (and used whitelist by way of analogy). The argument that the new terms are better holds no water whatsoever. The old terms were superior.

How is "allowlist" or "denylist" not more clear to, say, someone for whom English is a second language? Sure blacklist was already an English word, but it's not necessarily _common_, and the distinction between blacklist and whitelist is kinda arbitrary. If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it Allowlist and denylist are clearer, in that the meaning is in more clear alignment with…

The etymology is interesting - Pebble Voting was used in the early democracies in Greece from 500 BC. Black pebbles meant 'no' and white meant 'yes'. The tradition evolved to the black and white marbles used in the Roman senate centuries later, i.e. two millennia ago. The practice has since continued – it was used in the early American republic in the 18th century, and the word 'ballot' used today for voting means just that - a 'little ball'.

The word 'blacklist' probably originated from this meaning. It was in use in England since before, but it was probably the "Black List of Regicides” that popularised the term. It was a list compiled by the administration of King Charles II England of those to be punished for the beheading of his father King Charles I in 1649, following the restoration of the monarchy of England in 1660. As this list was rather long, it was a probably a bit of a traumatic event for the gentry in London and it’s not hard to imagine that the memory of the dreaded "blacklist" stuck. A century later the word was in general use for a list of enemies, detractors, and unwanted people.

Conversely, "in the black" is the notion of having no debts or a positive cash flow. This obviously comes from the centuries old principle of using black for credit, and red ink for debit and negative balances in the double-entry accounting system codified in the 15th century.

A tangential but equally fascinating concept is the practice of forbidding - or blacklisting - words in totalitarian regimes like Maoist China. Controlling language was a key strategy to influence thought, define in-groups, and ostracize out-groups. It's a hallmark of a totalitarian systems aiming to shape thought through language. Very much not at all in line with the principles of ballot voting in a democratic system one should think.

(The last argument can be used with any word. I could find your Gallicism offensive and demand that all words with a French etymology should be removed from English to restore it to it's Old-English form before the oppressive Normand rule, since after all, the old words would just make more sense to those who are old enough to be used to it, and my feelings are important.)

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#124

Post by pseudohadamard »

wahern wrote: post #17

> the clitoris did not even make it into standard anatomy textbooks until the 38th edition of Gray’s Anatomy was published in 1995. This seemed surprising, as it hews too close to an annoying meme in feminism and history generally, that people in prior eras were idiots. And it turns out to be wrong. The clitoris was in Gray's Anatomy until 1947, when it was removed by the editor Charles Goss for the 25th edition. See…

Well duh, Gray's had male editors and none of them could find it.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#125

Post by Jarwain »

kpil wrote: post #123
Jarwain wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is "allowlist" or "denylist" not more clear to, say, someone for whom English is a second language? Sure blacklist was already an English word, but it's not necessarily _common_, and the distinction between blacklist and whitelist is kinda arbitrary. If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it Allowlist and denylist are clearer, in that the meaning is in more clear alignment with…

The etymology is interesting - Pebble Voting was used in the early democracies in Greece from 500 BC. Black pebbles meant 'no' and white meant 'yes'. The tradition evolved to the black and white marbles used in the Roman senate centuries later, i.e. two millennia ago. The practice has since continued – it was used in the early American republic in the 18th century, and the word 'ballot' used today for voting means ju…

Thank you for sharing the etymology! It's quite interesting, I agree!

I may have been a bit too pithy/I sufficiently clear with that last statement I made.

I meant it in the sense that understanding the word relies on a lot of contextual/colloquial/cultural understanding that's typically gained via time and exposure. At least, more of it than allow/deny requires.

Imagine an alien culture encountering blacklist vs Denylist. The latter requires a lot less context to translate, because Deny is used a lot more consistently.

My argument is mainly one about _clarity_, not hurt feelings.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#126

Post by Jarwain »

brailsafe wrote: post #122
Jarwain wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is "allowlist" or "denylist" not more clear to, say, someone for whom English is a second language? Sure blacklist was already an English word, but it's not necessarily _common_, and the distinction between blacklist and whitelist is kinda arbitrary. If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it Allowlist and denylist are clearer, in that the meaning is in more clear alignment with…

Allowlist/Denylist are clear and perhaps more specific, but blacklist/whitelist are not arbitrary, they're just using black in valid ways according to common English dictionaries, which is similar to how other languages use the word black, but it is less specific. > If you'd like to explain Why the word means what it does I'd love to hear it Simply because black means different things depending on the context. Evil,…

I'm not trying to argue about validity here, but rather that these definitions/meanings of the word black are not "primary" definitions but secondary meanings based on that contextual/cultural/colloquial use. Arbitrary in the sense that that "commonality" is arbitrary and cultural, and language could just have easily developed to flip the colloquial definition.

Contrasted against using words where the Primary definition is the one that matters.

Imagine an alien culture encountering the word. Blacklist versus Denylist. The latter requires a lot less context to understand the meaning, because "Deny" has a single pretty consistent definition.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#127

Post by Jean-Papoulos »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #23
Fraterkes wrote: post #10

Dumb question, why do “sensitive” spots on the body need more nerves? Couldn’t you just have the normal touch-sensing nerves and map signals from specific spots on the body to stronger/pleasurable qualia in the brain?

Not a dumb question. The shortest (and at a glance unsatisfactory) answer is because it works, and therefore it evolved that way. Going in detail, first consider that for a feature to be evolutionarily selected for two things have to be true: 1. It must increase the fitness of the organism that carries it, i.e. the likelihood of its carrier having descendants as compared to non-carriers ( or be a side effect of anoth…

>1. It must increase the fitness of the organism that carries it, i.e. the likelihood of its carrier having descendants as compared to non-carriers

This isn't necessarily true. If you map out changes through the history of species, you'll find no significant changes but a lot of diversity for long periods, followed by big changes and low diversity for a short period. That's because during "abundant" times, the population will develop diversity as long as it doesn't significantly hinder reproductive rates. When an environnemental pressure comes up, the diversity dies down because the ones lucky enough to have adaptations that suddenly become useful and reproduce more.

So an animal might get a longer neck, but that doesn't significantly increase reproduction because food is aplenty. It's only when there's a drought that longer necks become an advantage and the trait is now selected for.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#128

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

jychang wrote: post #59
wahern wrote: post #17

> the clitoris did not even make it into standard anatomy textbooks until the 38th edition of Gray’s Anatomy was published in 1995. This seemed surprising, as it hews too close to an annoying meme in feminism and history generally, that people in prior eras were idiots. And it turns out to be wrong. The clitoris was in Gray's Anatomy until 1947, when it was removed by the editor Charles Goss for the 25th edition. See…

Being removed for versions 25 to 38… honestly confirms the feminist narrative of some people being idiots, though. Like, imagine documentation on object oriented programming being removed because it offended some functional programming folks.

> Like, imagine documentation on object oriented programming being removed because it offended some functional programming folks.

Let's not pretend we are fundamentally different from people living in other epochs, just biases change. We literally changed branch names of git repos because some people in one big country felt the naming could be offensive to another group of people.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#129

Post by Markoff »

turkey99 wrote: post #27
Shank wrote: post #12

Page 7 [0] of the report seems to indicate that FGM reconstruction actually seems to have negative outcomes post-surgery. I'm surprised by this. I'm also shocked to see how prolific FGM is too (230 million women?!). [0]: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.64898/2026.03.18.712572v1...

Male genital mutilation is very common

*in the US

Not in Europe.

Re: Full network of clitoral nerves mapped out for first time

#130

Post by saagarjha »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #51
Shank wrote: post #12

Page 7 [0] of the report seems to indicate that FGM reconstruction actually seems to have negative outcomes post-surgery. I'm surprised by this. I'm also shocked to see how prolific FGM is too (230 million women?!). [0]: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.64898/2026.03.18.712572v1...

Surgery is essentially mutilation, just with a lot of effort to get the patient a positive outcome. Hopefully, this information will help.

I don't see how this provides any useful context.
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