Wow, what a free society! In the UK if you refuse to unlock your device you can be imprisoned indefinitely! In HK it's just one year!
In UK you can be imprisoned for liking a post on Facebook that is considered "hate speech".
[citation needed]
Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
121–130 of 173 posts
Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed anti-Xi posts are unsafe in China, and safe in UK. Equally , anti-UK posts are safe in China and not so in the UK... (eg https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118565/documents/... ). The naïveté in the claim that these are significantly different reminded me of an old joke from the USSR: American: In America, we have freedom of speech. USSRian: What's that? American: I can stand in front of the White Hous…
I'm sorry, but you're not coherent. You're saying anti-uk posts, you're linking some heavily editorialized article from a highly ideological media outlet about an arrest "allegedly over criticising anti-trans activists". So not anti-UK posts. The arrest doesn't seem to have lead to any conviction. So not years of jail and reeducation camps like you get in China for dissent. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You…
You're trying to convince a flat-earther with logic or physics. Western democracies are evil. Worse than China and worse than North Korea. The answer is Marxism.
EDIT: This reminds me of a Russian person I used to work with. He truly believed that elections in all western democracies were fake and rigged. That is you go and vote but the vote is predetermined. This was a long time ago but I think it was some story told in Russia about the west (basically how the west is not really free) that stuck as an unshakeable belief when he left Russia and moved to the west. This was about 40 years ago give or take. People can hold weird beliefs and conspiracy theories (like people that believe the earth is flat) and those beliefs can not be assailed with logic or facts.
The reality is(?) that western democracies with all their flaws are better than authoritarian regimes but a person can not grasp the entirety of reality. One can always find examples where people are treated unjustly or unfairly in western democracies and ofcourse one can find examples of people being "ok" in authoritarian regimes. The key is to apply the scientific method to the question vs. relying on anecdotes but the human mind is not really wired for that.
Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#123Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#124Wow, what a free society! In the UK if you refuse to unlock your device you can be imprisoned indefinitely! In HK it's just one year!
The police must obtain appropriate permission from a judge to obtain a s.49 RIPA notice. Before a judge grants the notice, they must be satisfied that: The key to the protected information is in the possession of the person given notice. Disclosure is necessary in the interest of national security, in preventing or detecting crime or in the interests of the economic wellbeing of the UK. Disclosure is proportionate. I…
An interesting observation of the West is that people have an innate trust in the authorities/institutions. It's largely because the institutions have been well run for so long. But as that fades we're left in this twilight zone where you can point to a law like it prevents something. As is often pointed out, the Soviet constitution was much more free than the US one. Even the Romans knew this distinction
Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry, but you're not coherent. You're saying anti-uk posts, you're linking some heavily editorialized article from a highly ideological media outlet about an arrest "allegedly over criticising anti-trans activists". So not anti-UK posts. The arrest doesn't seem to have lead to any conviction. So not years of jail and reeducation camps like you get in China for dissent. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You…
You're trying to convince a flat-earther with logic or physics. Western democracies are evil. Worse than China and worse than North Korea. The answer is Marxism. EDIT: This reminds me of a Russian person I used to work with. He truly believed that elections in all western democracies were fake and rigged. That is you go and vote but the vote is predetermined. This was a long time ago but I think it was some story tol…
Increasingly, people in the US get convinced that Europe is pretty much like China (they usually focus on the policing of online spaces in the UK as proof of that).
There was apparently a recent push in their media to introduce and reinforce this narrative. Can’t see what good would that do, except the current leadership wanting to worsen relations with everyone.
Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#126Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
How is "against democracies" even on topic here? Parent commentator said HK is now like the UK, why it matter how much of a democracy either of the places are? And no, it isn't a "nazi bar" just because someone disagrees with you, that's not how that label should be applied. Save it for actual nazis, otherwise you're doing the rest of us a huge disservice, as when there are actual nazis, people think we're talking op…
Because the original commenter is screaming about how the UK is authoritarian without any links, which smells to me like he's a typical right wing idjit, who wants to put in Nigel Farage in power and actually turn the place more Nazi.
That's why I asked if he was referring to that overturned conviction, which shows there's still some rule of law, or post a link to what the actual hell he's talking about.
Pfft, but well, fuck me, just learned that I'm the idiot who's wrestling with the pig yet again.
Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#128Wow, what a free society! In the UK if you refuse to unlock your device you can be imprisoned indefinitely! In HK it's just one year!
The police must obtain appropriate permission from a judge to obtain a s.49 RIPA notice. Before a judge grants the notice, they must be satisfied that: The key to the protected information is in the possession of the person given notice. Disclosure is necessary in the interest of national security, in preventing or detecting crime or in the interests of the economic wellbeing of the UK. Disclosure is proportionate. I…
The standard of proof is reasonable grounds, don't forget your passwords because this is an incredibly low bar to pass.
>in preventing or detecting crime
If the police are requesting a s.49 notice it goes without saying that it will be for preventing or detecting crime, but notices can also be issued to ensure the exercise or performance of public bodies, statutory powers, or statutory duties without such a requirement.
>Disclosure is proportionate.
In regards to what is sought to be achieved by the disclosure. It is not disproportionate to request disclosure for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime regardless of how benign that crime is.
>If the protected information cannot be obtained by reasonable means.
The law has been used against people for failing to give up Facebook passwords. The police routinely ask companies for information without a warrant and they're usually legally denied such requests based on GDPR grounds. 'Reasonably practicable' means nothing if it can be bypassed by police trying their luck without a warrant.
Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#129Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are you misrepresenting about UK law? Yes, it can be a criminal offence. But the maximum tariff for this under RIPA 2000 is five years. If it’s not about nation security or CSAM, it’s two. (Incidentally, the USA is a real outlier in this topic)
Its five years with no limitations, so when you are due to be released; Whats your password? Another five years... Its such a poorly worded law you could literally spend your life in prison for forgetting your password. And Its mostly used against peaceful protesters.
>Its five years with no limitations, so when you are due to be released
Doesn't double jeopardy prevent this? Has this actually happened?