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LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

blog.documentfoundation.org

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Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#121

Post by mikkupikku »

ethin wrote: post #12

I don't understand this immediate reaction. What is it with people getting bitchy the moment a project starts asking for donations? Are people really that greedy that they would want something to be free forever? I mean sure, a corporation like MS might rug-pull like this (the freemium model or worse), but come on, guys, this is the Document Foundation that we're talking about. Unless I missed something massive, they…

Donation and tip fatigue. Can't go anywhere without being bombarded with beggars. FOSS used to not have this, people got that you were supposed to have a real job to support yourself, not cultivate a discord club of beta orbiter patreon paypigs, as is the modern style.

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#123

Post by LaundroMat »

mrweasel wrote: post #63
jorvi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this same feeling with donating blood (in most EU countries you don't get paid for this so it is completely charitable). If you have donated blood, every 2-3 months they will send you an e-mail for a new donation cycle. That's fine. But if you don't respond, they will send another reminder. Then a text. Then they will call you. Yes, you can just click the "Not this time" button, and click the reason for denyin…

One of my favourite criticisms, yes their procedure works, but it probably doesn't measure rejection rates. "We hounded these 1000 people for a donation, 60% responded favourably". Okay, but out of the 40% that didn't respond how many are you never going to see again? Who were those 40%? My wife works in a line of business where up-selling is a debated issue. Most of the industry thinks it's good, because they see mo…

I like to call that dark number the "conversion aversion".

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#124

Post by bluefirebrand »

therealpygon wrote: post #66
ozim wrote: post #19

I disagree with take on Wikipedia or Wikimedia there was a lot of trash talk because they were totally obnoxious with their fundraising. I donated once to Wikipedia and then I was getting Jimmy Wales in my mailbox basically like everyday. That actually drove me away from ever wanting to donate to them. Then there was a lot of talking if they really are so much in need of money but that's different topic. In contrast…

Why not just click the “unsubscribe” button on any of those emails you complained about getting? Seems like blaming marketing for a lack of self-agency to opt-out, but I suppose we each have our own metrics. I’ve donated, got emails, clicked one button, stopped getting emails. Guess it just seems the complaint is very solvable, but I do partially understand your point.

> Why not just click the “unsubscribe” button on any of those emails you complained about getting

Because I work in software and I've known plenty of people in this industry that treat the unsubscribe button as a "there's a real user getting these emails" button

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#125

Post by data-ottawa »

kartoffelsaft wrote: post #86

I've noticed a very sudden uptick in users of FOSS software being so low trust that they will see a small change, assume it's much larger, and then retreat to some rationalization that it's still bad when shown it's pretty small (slippery slope / boiling frog type arguments). I'm not too familiar with this story in particular but I have been following the Systemd birthdate field controversy, and it's exhausting. I do…

The problem is for over a decade companies keep doing enshittification tactics and it’s destroyed trust.

Plus there’s been a lot of public to private migrations like minio and others that feel like total rug pulls.

I am with you that the birthday field is blown way out of proportion, but I’m also positive that once that’s enforced governments will use this to restrict whatever they don’t like arbitrarily (see LGBTQ book bans).

Trust in open source devs is definitely down. There was that book lore app drama just a couple weeks ago because the dev used AI, and the community didn’t like AI (which escalated poorly).

Nobody really cared how the open source sausage was made, but now it’s the most important thing to people.

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#126

Post by dvratil »

Just yesterday I used Jellyfin2Samsung to install Moonlight on my TV. After the installation, the app shown a popup to donate to the author ("buy me a beer"). And I figured why not? The software turned a tedious process into a one-click solution, letting me do what I wanted to do (stream games to my TV) rather than spending an evening messing with Tizen Studio. Absolutely worth a few dollars.

KDE's Plasma will popup a notification every once in a while asking for donation. When you close it, you won't hear from it again until the next fundraiser. I almost always donate as well.

If a software asks in a non-obtrusive way, ideally after I used it (either for a while or like in case of Jellyfin2Samsung after doing the one thing it's supposed to do), I don't mind at all.

I dislike apps (mostly websites) that keep asking for money, regardless of whether you already donated or not every single time you visit them.

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#127

Post by bigstrat2003 »

taneq wrote: post #95
ozim wrote: post #19

I disagree with take on Wikipedia or Wikimedia there was a lot of trash talk because they were totally obnoxious with their fundraising. I donated once to Wikipedia and then I was getting Jimmy Wales in my mailbox basically like everyday. That actually drove me away from ever wanting to donate to them. Then there was a lot of talking if they really are so much in need of money but that's different topic. In contrast…

Ugh. The persistent nagging fundraising drives are probably the main reason I haven’t donated to Wikipedia even though I feel like I should. One time I donated to a Red Cross appeal and over the next decade I’m certain they spent more than my original donation on spamming me with physical junk mail trying to extract more money from me. Never again.

I had the same thing happen with donating blood. I donated blood and ever since then they call me once every week or two to nag me to donate more blood. I will never donate blood to that organization again.

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#128

Post by bartread »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #108
bartread wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response is fine. Entitlement and, really, some of this crosses the line into bullying of the foundation and the maintainers, should be dealt with robustly. It will help to reset expectations around what's reasonable for the relationship of those developing LibreOffice with the community of users. People need to recognise that they get a huge amount of value out of LibreOffice, for which they aren't required to p…

It doesn't look professional when you loose your temper, this article is comparable to that. When reading it, I kept thinking that the writer was too emotionally involved.

> It doesn't look professional when you loose your temper, this article is comparable to that.

Nobody's lost their temper. In no world does the article read like anyone has. That's you applying your own interpretive lens to the text, not what the text actually says.

(But actually, alienating the troublesome portions of their userbase might actually help them and the LibreOffice community over the longer term. C.f., firing customers.)

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#129

Post by demorro »

II2II wrote: post #44

I understand that dealing with complaints is annoying, but the response in the article was very unprofessional. Feel free to say what the change is, why it is there, and perhaps even address some of the concerns. But attacking users, even if it is a small segment of the population, does not paint The Document Foundation in a positive light.

Absurd take. The response was completely measured, and even if it wasn't The Document Foundation has no obligation either legal or moral to present as professional. They are not a business.

Re: LibreOffice and the art of overreacting

#130

Post by ethin »

mikkupikku wrote: post #121
ethin wrote: post #12

I don't understand this immediate reaction. What is it with people getting bitchy the moment a project starts asking for donations? Are people really that greedy that they would want something to be free forever? I mean sure, a corporation like MS might rug-pull like this (the freemium model or worse), but come on, guys, this is the Document Foundation that we're talking about. Unless I missed something massive, they…

Donation and tip fatigue. Can't go anywhere without being bombarded with beggars. FOSS used to not have this, people got that you were supposed to have a real job to support yourself, not cultivate a discord club of beta orbiter patreon paypigs, as is the modern style.

This... Is a really weird take. Really. Maybe, just maybe, people want to dedicate full time to OSS? Maybe they can't find a job? A donation is just that, donations. Quite different, I think, from a tip, in that there is no cultural pressure to donate as there is for tips. If you don't want to donate, don't. But don't complain when people kindly ask for them. (Also, a tip (especially online ones) is very different because, unlike a tip, you actually know the donation is going towards the entity your donating too, instead of you not knowing if the tip is going to the person it should be going to or if it's going to the company operating the service.)
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