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OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

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Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#121

Post by feznyng »

gos9 wrote: post #64
somewhereoutth wrote: post #8

I would like a personal assistant on my phone that, based on my usual routine and my exact position, can tell me (for example) which bus will get me home the quickest off the ferry, whether the bridge is clogged with traffic, do I need an umbrella? what's probably missing from my fridge, time to top up transit pass, did I tap in? etc etc. These things would appear on my lock screen when I most probably need to know t…

No security problems carries a lot of weight here because by design you’re having to expose a significant amount of information but this is doable as a weekend project

How? There's a bunch of annoying problems here:

- Where do you source real time traffic data, ferry schedules, etc? Google APIs get you part of the way there but you'd need to crawl public transit sites for the rest.

- How do you keep track of what went into the fridge, what was consumed/thrown away?

- How do you track real world events like buying a physical pass?

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#122

Post by Ekaros »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #8

I would like a personal assistant on my phone that, based on my usual routine and my exact position, can tell me (for example) which bus will get me home the quickest off the ferry, whether the bridge is clogged with traffic, do I need an umbrella? what's probably missing from my fridge, time to top up transit pass, did I tap in? etc etc. These things would appear on my lock screen when I most probably need to know t…

Sounds like there is need for decent singular interface for bunch of expert systems. Sadly I think everyone is so deep into locking their own thing down from others that this will never happen.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#123

Post by philipallstar »

scuff3d wrote: post #94
dfabulich wrote: post #20

> Separate Accounts for your OpenClaw > As I have mentioned, treat OpenClaw as a separate entity. So, give it its own Gmail account, Calendar, and every integration possible. And teach it to access its own email and other accounts. In addition, create a separate 1Password account to store credentials. It’s akin to having a personal assistant with a separate identity, rather than an automation tool. The whole point of…

Give it a hundred years or so and we're gonna have robots wandering around who about 10% of the time go totally insane and kill anyone around them. But we'll all just shrug and go about our day, because they generate so much revenue for the corporate overlords. What are a few lives when stockholder value is on the line.

It's governments that tend to declare war and kill people.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#124

Post by habinero »

justinhj wrote: post #68

As a site for people curious about technology, where is the sense of adventure? People are inventing the future of human/ai interaction themselves because big tech could not do it within their own constraints. Don't get me wrong, those constraints are there for a reason, but the hacker mentality seems muted lately.

Hacker mentality means doing something new and clever, not reinventing IFTTT and related clones.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#125

Post by lxgr »

taurath wrote: post #114

I love how despite all this, the author still uses the language: > We’re simply not there yet to let the agents run loose As if there aren’t fundamental properties that would need to change to ever become secure.

Personally, if I could run capable-enough inference on hardware I control, and could rely on the harness asking me for mechanistic confirmation before the agent can take consequential actions, I'd do it immediately.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#126

Post by aminebnk »

simonw wrote: post #13
vessenes wrote: post #6

Yes, yes it is. And it's amaaaazing. We're going to have lots of sharp edges getting stuff like this secured, but it is not going to go away. Too useful.

The first company to deliver a truly secure Claw is going to make millions of dollars. I have no idea how anyone is going to do that.

[dead]

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#127

Post by jgilias »

Andrei_dev wrote: post #100
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #28

Not just OpenClaw. Anyone giving an LLM direct access to the system is completely irresponsible. You can't trust what it will do, because it has no understanding. But people don't give a shit, gotta go fast - even if they are going in a bad direction.

[flagged]

Go ahead, try it out:

https://hackmyclaw.com/

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#128

Post by rpcope1 »

runarberg wrote: post #96
sxg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of it is lack of imagination, but some of it is because many truly visionary examples would largely sound stupid to most of today's audience. Imagine it's 2007 and you're explaining how the smartphone will change society over the next 20 years: - A photo sharing app will change restaurants, public spaces, and the entire travel industry across the world - The smartphone will bring about regime change in Egypt, Tu…

None of these actually were hard to sell. In 2007 we had mobile phones, we had mp3 players (the iPod was actually very good), we had CouchSurfing, etc. I think the smart phone revolution is actually pretty overstated. It basically only made computers cheaper and handier to carry (but also more walled gardens). There are a few capabilities of smart phones we do today which we didn’t with do with computers and mobile p…

Even the navigation part, I'm not so sure. I remember Dad would bring a laptop when we would drive new places and it would be running Microsoft Streets and Trips with a GPS dongle, and I think that have been late 90s or early 00s. I remember seeing other people do that and by the time I was driving a lot in 07 I remember having a dash mounted GPS, maybe a Magellan or Garmin, that didn't cost that much and again I remember a lot of people doing it. The smartphone definitely displaced it, but it wasn't a complete novelty even for the general public.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#129

Post by blackcatsec »

the_snooze wrote: post #90
sylos wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some folks want a legitmate personal assistant/secretary like ceo's and wealthy people have but ai. I think that's a good goal. Modern cells and pdas kinda fell short of "your own literal secretary" and I think people want that. Still we should continue pushing the boundaries beyond that.

The purpose of a personal assistant isn’t to fit people into your calendar. It’s to filter them out. They serve as a barrier to your time, not an enabler for other people to claim it. I don’t see how an AI can meaningfully accomplish that any better than simply just making yourself more difficult to reach.

This is it right here. I've long thought about this one and whether I should bother with an AI agent that can do all of this stuff for me, but the reality is both what you said and I'm not rich enough.

Do I want the AI Agent to take my bank account and automatically pay some bill every month in full? What if you go a little over that month due to an emergency expense you weren't prepared for? And it's not a matter of "I don't have enough in my bank account for this one time charge", but it's "I don't have enough in my bank account for this charge and 3 others coming at the end of the month." type deal.

Agents aren't going to be very good at that. "Hey I paid $3,000 on your credit card in order to prevent you from incurring interest. Interest is really bad to carry on a credit card and you should minimize that as much as possible." Me: "Yeah but I needed that money for rent this month." Agent: "Oh, yeah! I should have taken that into account! It looks like we can't reverse the charge for the payment."

Yeah, no fucking thank you LOL.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#130

Post by davidw »

Oarch wrote: post #17

Responding to the tweet quoted in the article: why are the examples given of futuristic capabilities always so visionless - it's always booking a flight or scheduling a meeting. Doing this manually is already pretty trivial, it's more productivity theatre than genuinely life-changing. There are real, impressive examples of the power of agentic flows out there. Can we up the quality of our examples just a bit?

Booking a flight is the kind of thing I want to dedicate my full attention to. It's expensive, and the timing and details matter a lot.

I'm happy for the voice assistant to add stuff to my grocery list, though. The consequences are not serious if it screws up a letter or something.

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