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Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

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Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#121

Post by gib444 »

leonidasrup wrote: post #119
gib444 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The nuclear programme was effectively stopped in France and it is struggling to be revived. You're describing France from 2010 to 2020, not today.

Under Hollande, France swung in an anti-nuclear direction, with plans to reduce nuclear power down to 50 percent of the energy mix, fuelled by the post-Fukushima panic. When Emmanuel Macron took power in 2017, he was still committed to this target and closed down Fessenheim in 2020, despite calls from pro-nuclear groups to extend its life. Following the surge in energy prices triggered by the Ukraine War, France reve…

Again, dragging up the past. Fine, let's exclude 2020. 2021-2022 was more of a turning point. Your comment doesn't refute my point, a point which does refute the point I was replying to.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#122

Post by drysine »

leonidasrup wrote: post #117
drysine wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are local solutions, you can't put nuclear reactor in any city, town and village that needs heating

Placement of nuclear reactor very much depends on the design of the reactor and nuclear regulations of the country. There is currently construction of LDR‑50 reactor in Salmisaari, Helsinki city centre. https://www.steadyenergy.com/news-article/construction-of-st...

"The pilot is a 1:1 full-scale replica of the LDR‑50 small nuclear heating reactor. Instead of a reactor core, the pilot uses an electric resistor that simulates the decay heat produced by an actual reactor. "

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#123

Post by troupo »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #111
troupo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The actual lesson here is that beyond a small reserve, the case for nuclear is non existent Except you know, minor things like base load, energy spikes etc.

How does nuclear, an energy source known for needing to run at a very high capacity factor (i.e at max capacity) help with energy spikes? Well you better go tell the Chinese that they should slow down on wind and solar, clearly they are misinformed about how to run their grid.

> How does nuclear, an energy source known for needing to run at a very high capacity factor (i.e at max capacity) help with energy spikes?

It's one of the fastest load-following power sources we have. I think only gas power stations are faster. And no, they don't run at full capacity at all times.

All modern nuclear plants are capable of changing power output at 3-5% of nameplate capacity per minute: https://www.oecd-nea.org/upload/docs/application/pdf/2021-12...

You can't ramp up or ramp down any of the renewable sources as quickly. Or you have to insanely overbuild them.

Batteries help to a point, and there are downsides and problems to batteries, too. You want to be as diverse in your power sources and power source backups as possible.

> Well you better go tell the Chinese that they should slow down on wind and solar, clearly they are misinformed about how to run their grid.

Non-sequitur.

China is building out all power sources at tremendous pace. They build both renewables and nuclear. They literally approve 10 new reactors a year on top of all the renewables they also build.

And while they canceled inland plans after Fukushima, they may still reverse the decision. China is nothing if not pragmatic.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#124

Post by leonidasrup »

gib444 wrote: post #121
leonidasrup wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under Hollande, France swung in an anti-nuclear direction, with plans to reduce nuclear power down to 50 percent of the energy mix, fuelled by the post-Fukushima panic. When Emmanuel Macron took power in 2017, he was still committed to this target and closed down Fessenheim in 2020, despite calls from pro-nuclear groups to extend its life. Following the surge in energy prices triggered by the Ukraine War, France reve…

Again, dragging up the past. Fine, let's exclude 2020. 2021-2022 was more of a turning point. Your comment doesn't refute my point, a point which does refute the point I was replying to.

I would really recommend listening to discussion with Mark Nelson, managing director of Radiant Energy Group, about the state of the French nuclear power industry. "Something's Rotten with French Nuclear" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isgu-VrD0oM

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#125

Post by _aavaa_ »

troupo wrote: post #123
_aavaa_ wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does nuclear, an energy source known for needing to run at a very high capacity factor (i.e at max capacity) help with energy spikes? Well you better go tell the Chinese that they should slow down on wind and solar, clearly they are misinformed about how to run their grid.

> How does nuclear, an energy source known for needing to run at a very high capacity factor (i.e at max capacity) help with energy spikes? It's one of the fastest load-following power sources we have. I think only gas power stations are faster. And no, they don't run at full capacity at all times. All modern nuclear plants are capable of changing power output at 3-5% of nameplate capacity per minute: https://www.oec…

> China is building out all power sources at tremendous pace. They build both renewables and nuclear. They literally approve 10 new reactors a year on top of all the renewables they also build.

Not a non-sequitor. They are building out wind solar and hydro at orders of magnitude more than nuclear.

“Look China is building so much nuclear, we should too.” Is disingenuous and self-serving by the nuclear industry since they don’t acknowledge that their nuclear build out is a rounding error (and a decade behind behind schedule) compared to renewables. If we want to point to China and say we should do what they do, the obvious take away is that renewables are the way to go.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#126

Post by _aavaa_ »

defrost wrote: post #112
_aavaa_ wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does nuclear, an energy source known for needing to run at a very high capacity factor (i.e at max capacity) help with energy spikes? Well you better go tell the Chinese that they should slow down on wind and solar, clearly they are misinformed about how to run their grid.

The same Chinese who in addition to wind and solar are also building many nuclear energy plants of several differing designs, have nuclear already as 20% (?? or so, IIRC) of their supply capacity and intend by plan to keep it that way? For whatever reason, the Chinese are all for hybrid nuclear / renewables - and keeping modern more efficient coal plants in the picture until they no longer needed. The "trending flat"…

> have nuclear already as 20% (?? or so, IIRC) of their supply capacity and intend by plan to keep it that way?

Off by about an order of magnitude. It’s only 4% of generation: https://ourworldindata.org/electricity-mix

Meanwhile wind, hydro, and solar are each on their own at least 2x that.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#128

Post by mytailorisrich »

gib444 wrote: post #121
leonidasrup wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under Hollande, France swung in an anti-nuclear direction, with plans to reduce nuclear power down to 50 percent of the energy mix, fuelled by the post-Fukushima panic. When Emmanuel Macron took power in 2017, he was still committed to this target and closed down Fessenheim in 2020, despite calls from pro-nuclear groups to extend its life. Following the surge in energy prices triggered by the Ukraine War, France reve…

Again, dragging up the past. Fine, let's exclude 2020. 2021-2022 was more of a turning point. Your comment doesn't refute my point, a point which does refute the point I was replying to.

You have not refuted anything. I have replied to your claims... why you would want to deny reality? Strange.

In addition, nuclear energy policy and developments is measured in decades not sungle years. My point remains. France is struggling to revive its nuclear energy programme...

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#130

Post by defrost »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #126
defrost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same Chinese who in addition to wind and solar are also building many nuclear energy plants of several differing designs, have nuclear already as 20% (?? or so, IIRC) of their supply capacity and intend by plan to keep it that way? For whatever reason, the Chinese are all for hybrid nuclear / renewables - and keeping modern more efficient coal plants in the picture until they no longer needed. The "trending flat"…

> have nuclear already as 20% (?? or so, IIRC) of their supply capacity and intend by plan to keep it that way? Off by about an order of magnitude. It’s only 4% of generation: https://ourworldindata.org/electricity-mix Meanwhile wind, hydro, and solar are each on their own at least 2x that.

In China, in 2023, Electricity was only 29% of the total final energy consumption.

~ https://www.iea.org/countries/china/energy-mix

Of that Electricity,

  61.3% - Coal
  13.5% - Hydropower
   9.3% - Wind
   6.1% - Solar PV
   4.6% - Nuclear
   0.1% - Oil
So, Wind on it's own ~ 2x Nuclear, and Solar on it's own about 1.3 x Nuclear.

Clearly I was thinking of some other pivot on energy charting in China taht had it at 20% - perhaps current growth rates .. apologies.

That aside, in the greater picture of energy consumption, Wind, solar, and nuclear in China are all close enough to be ballpark ( a little more seperated just in the context of electricity generation )

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