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Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

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Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#121

Post by glenstein »

chii wrote: post #41
hvb2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not remotely the same? A default setting that can easily be changed for a feature the vendor didn't have a solution for? To give you an example. Try to use Google Search without sending your data to Google. You cannot use the product without it, you cannot opt out. Firefox, you can use just fine with Google not being your search engine.

Why isn't it the same? The fact that it is possible to change that default means google simply pays less for it than they otherwise would if it wasn't changeable. It's not a binary toggle - firefox is selling you as a source of revenue for themselves. They're just not making it as extreme as it is possible to be - in the hopes that you don't switch away. You can compare same situation with safari in iOS. Except googl…

The problem is that this is equivocating between "selling your data" and setting Google as the default search. The former implies Firefox is harvesting your telemetry and personally identifying you and selling it off to the highest bidder. The latter is setting Google search as an optional default, where any telemetry is part of customary interactions with Google search rather than anything specific that Firefox is doing.

The sense in which you are the product on Firefox is that they want to maintain a large enough user base that search licensing is valuable enough to sell to Google.

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#122

Post by kotaKat »

philipallstar wrote: post #106
kotaKat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the VPN need to be integrated into the browser itself?

I don't think it should. You think it should be a browser extension. I don't think it should either be integrated or a browser extension.

Quite frankly I don't think it should be either. I'm sick of browsers trying to sidestep my operating system's networking stack (be it forcing their own DNS implementations for 'security' or now this BS).

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#123

Post by pipes »

mhitza wrote: post #120
userbinator wrote: post #3

As a Firefox user: if I want a VPN I'll use an actual VPN. Focus on making a great browser, and not all this distraction. Also, "free": "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold"

This feature actually sounds like something that is aligned to Mozilla's mission of an open internet (paraphrasing). Now, from where this cost is going to be recouped, how seamless the integration will be (in-browser translation is useful but the UX is not good enough), or if their VPN exit points aren't flagged to death as bad IPs; will remain to be seen. The other thing about this feature, is that it will prove int…

Uk gov already talking about age verification (my read: identify verification) for VPN services. Grim. I'm guessing they'd block Firefox if they don't comply.

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#124

Post by [deleted] »

nl wrote: post #29
userbinator wrote: post #3

As a Firefox user: if I want a VPN I'll use an actual VPN. Focus on making a great browser, and not all this distraction. Also, "free": "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold"

> "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold" This is such a un-nuanced take. In this case Firefox's route-to-market is the product. It's a distribution channel where some people who receive the free version will upgrade. Free tiers for products where some will pay to upgrade seems like a reasonable compromise, but it does depend on how the deal is structured. If Mullvad pays Firefox for the free use…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#125

Post by deltoidmaximus »

everdrive wrote: post #90
nl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold" This is such a un-nuanced take. In this case Firefox's route-to-market is the product. It's a distribution channel where some people who receive the free version will upgrade. Free tiers for products where some will pay to upgrade seems like a reasonable compromise, but it does depend on how the deal is structured. If Mullvad pays Firefox for the free use…

>This is such a un-nuanced take. I agree in principle, but we interact with hundreds of companies per day. Which ones are honest and which ones are taking advantage of us? I really don't have the cycles to run it all down, and keep up with it over time. Perhaps Firefox VPN will be totally private initially and then violate privacy 2 years in? Would I ever know? Maybe? I need to err on the side of caution for a lot of…

Firefox already had a rebadged Mullvad VPN service. I thought about switching but I found it had way fewer payment options and the log policy did not look encouraging when I read it. Made it sound like not only did it keep some kind of connection logs but that they'd cough them up pretty easily. Maybe their policy has changed but it did not seem to be a compelling offering.

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#126

Post by LoganDark »

pipes wrote: post #123
mhitza wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feature actually sounds like something that is aligned to Mozilla's mission of an open internet (paraphrasing). Now, from where this cost is going to be recouped, how seamless the integration will be (in-browser translation is useful but the UX is not good enough), or if their VPN exit points aren't flagged to death as bad IPs; will remain to be seen. The other thing about this feature, is that it will prove int…

Uk gov already talking about age verification (my read: identify verification) for VPN services. Grim. I'm guessing they'd block Firefox if they don't comply.

> (my read: identify verification)

My read: Identity theft

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#128

Post by aleph_minus_one »

Xunjin wrote: post #117
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Also, "free": "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold" > HN is "free" too. :) Indeed: you deliver valuable information about market trends, market sentiments, technology, ... to SV startups and investors. Additionally, Hacker News is basically a marketing expense of YC.

Well pointed. Sometimes being the "product" is not a bad thing.

It's all about: do you derive an appropriate value for yourself from being the product?

For example, when you use the Google search engine, you are the product (Google's customers are advertisers). I hope you derive sufficient (average) value from each Google search so that you consider this to be worth it.

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#129

Post by Bender »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #98
aurareturn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, "free": "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold" HN is "free" too. :)

> > Also, "free": "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold" > HN is "free" too. :) Indeed: you deliver valuable information about market trends, market sentiments, technology, ... to SV startups and investors. Additionally, Hacker News is basically a marketing expense of YC.

And crowd sourced think tank.

Re: Mozilla to launch free built-in VPN in upcoming Firefox 149

#130

Post by notepad0x90 »

pavon wrote: post #8
notepad0x90 wrote: post #4

I usually defend Mozilla with these things, but I'm a bit bearish on this. It's not like they're not relying on big partnerships already for their survival. I don't have a problem with free to long as there is a paid plan, which I don't see on their announcement page. I don't care who is running a free-only VPN is a huge red flag, and I am one of those people that recommends using VPN services instead of running your…

Mozilla has offered paid VPN plans for over 5 years now. This is just adding a free tier to that. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/products/vpn/

That's much better, but it is still a free VPN that bypasses network security measures. I can even imagine a threat actor deploying firefox for their command and control infra.
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