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Java 26 is here
121–130 of 352 posts
Re: Java 26 is here
#122I program in Java for more than 15 years now. I can resonate with people hating the language from it's early days due to the experience with all the enterprisy features and over abstractions. Or confunding Java with the Spring ecosystem. But Java came a long way over the years. It's now what many would call a "modern" language. It's less verbose, has many of the features people find appealing in Scala and Kotlin and…
Lack of virtual threads was its biggest remaining problem because this made the common ways of doing cooperative multitasking very ugly. Go's big thing was having that from the start. Maybe now that Java has it too, it's set? Though JS will still have the least boilerplate because of the way it handles types.
IMO, Kotlin coroutines are better of Go's goroutines, although they are a little different beasts to compare honestly (apples and oranges). Go inits goroutines on stack, but min size is 4KiB, so it's not trivial to grow them. Also you need to watch over and destruct goroutines manually to prevent memory leaks (using
var wg = sync.WaitGroup
defer wg.wait()
wg.Add(1)
go func() {
defer wg.Done()
}
And create a separate channel to return errors from a goroutine. Definitely more work.
Re: Java 26 is here
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
They definitely did not, it was Android Java from day one, and Oracle should have crushed them like Sun did to Microsoft, unfortunately Google was the geek darling of do not evil, thus they got a pass from fanboys.
Android was not 100% compatible with Java, but mostly because it had a specialized environment. It did not support things like dynamic bytecode generation, but it faithfully reproduced pretty much everything else that made sense. And yeah, it would have been so much better with Oracle(tm)(r)(c)(fuckyou) running Android with Pure Java(tm)(r)(c)(screwyou) instead. Now with EJB5 and more XML! You might be too young to r…
What a clusterfuck this still is. I’m glad I haven’t written a LOC in this brittle eco system.
Re: Java 26 is here
#124the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
It's getting better, it doesn't all have to be Spring Boot and JBoss. There is quarkus, helidon and micronaut for slimmer more modern backend frameworks. jbang for scripting (think uvx, bunx), Tambo UI ( https://tamboui.dev/ ) for terminal UIs, and more. Along with all the new Java features that help you write much simpler code - eg. virtual threads, structured concurrency, stream gatherers, and performance / resourc…
I never want to read another Bean or log4j config ever again.
Re: Java 26 is here
#125Too little, too late. Followers.
Re: Java 26 is here
#126the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
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Re: Java 26 is here
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's getting better, it doesn't all have to be Spring Boot and JBoss. There is quarkus, helidon and micronaut for slimmer more modern backend frameworks. jbang for scripting (think uvx, bunx), Tambo UI ( https://tamboui.dev/ ) for terminal UIs, and more. Along with all the new Java features that help you write much simpler code - eg. virtual threads, structured concurrency, stream gatherers, and performance / resourc…
If someone reads this and wonders what JBoss is, the contemporary variety is called WildFly and it is actually rather easy to install and play around with. https://www.wildfly.org/ I think this is an often overlooked solution to some of the problems we nowadays tend to approach the clown for. As for build systems, Maven is old and cranky but if something else replaces it, it will probably be quite similar anyway.
JBoss was great back in the day. I remember when there was a JRuby port of it called Torquebox that I loved.
Eventually though, I found Elixir and it gave me everything I was looking for from that stack.
Re: Java 26 is here
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of virtual threads was its biggest remaining problem because this made the common ways of doing cooperative multitasking very ugly. Go's big thing was having that from the start. Maybe now that Java has it too, it's set? Though JS will still have the least boilerplate because of the way it handles types.
IMO, Kotlin coroutines are better of Go's goroutines, although they are a little different beasts to compare honestly (apples and oranges). Go inits goroutines on stack, but min size is 4KiB, so it's not trivial to grow them. Also you need to watch over and destruct goroutines manually to prevent memory leaks (using var wg = sync.WaitGroup defer wg.wait() wg.Add(1) go func() { defer wg.Done() } ) And create a separat…
It is, but your typical backend code isn't dealing with that most of the time. You can just use blocking I/O in handlers.
Re: Java 26 is here
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah but I do like not having to give Go several flags to do something reasonable with its memory
The "reasonable" thing go does is pausing core threads doing the actual work of your program, if it feels they create too much garbage so it can keep up, severely limiting throughput.
I think this is a misunderstanding. If the program out-paces the GC because the GC guessed the trigger point wrong, something has to give.
In Go, what gives is goroutines have to use some of their time slice to assist the GC and pay down their allocations.
In Java, I believe what you used to get was called "concurrent mode failure" which was somewhat notorious, since it would just stop the world to complete the mark phase. I don't know how this has changed. Poking around a little bit it seems like something similar in ZGC is called "allocation failure"?
The GC assist approach adopted by Go was inspired by real-time GC techniques from the literature and in practice it works nicely. It's not perfect of course, but it's worked just fine for lots of programs. From a purely philosophical point of view, I think it results in a more graceful degradation under unexpectedly high allocation pressure than stopping the world, but what happens in practice is much more situational and relies on good heuristics in the implementation.
Re: Java 26 is here
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's getting better, it doesn't all have to be Spring Boot and JBoss. There is quarkus, helidon and micronaut for slimmer more modern backend frameworks. jbang for scripting (think uvx, bunx), Tambo UI ( https://tamboui.dev/ ) for terminal UIs, and more. Along with all the new Java features that help you write much simpler code - eg. virtual threads, structured concurrency, stream gatherers, and performance / resourc…
I never want to read another Bean or log4j config ever again.
Didn't they all switch to convention over configuration and dependency injection so now your configuration is your source code?