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Malus – Clean Room as a Service

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Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#121

Post by utopiah »

zozbot234 wrote: post #114
utopiah wrote: post #103

Don't believe in hell but I were I hope they'd be a special place for them. It's like... revert patent troll? I'm not even sure I get it but the wording "liberation from open source license obligations." just wants to make me puke. I also doubt it's legit but I'm not a lawyer. I hope somebody at the FSF or Apache foundation or ... whomever who is though will clarify. "Our proprietary AI systems have never seen" how c…

This is satire, but the very notion of open source license obligations is meaningless in context. FLOSS licenses do not require you to publish your purely internal changes to the code; any publication happens by your choice, and given that AI can now supposedly engineer a clean-room reimplementation of any published program whatsoever, publishing your software with a proprietary copyright isn't going to exactly save…

"given that AI can now supposedly engineer a clean-room reimplementation of any published program whatsoever"

I'm missing something there, that's precisely what I'm arguing again. How can it do a clean-room reimplementation when the open source code is most likely in the training data? That only works if you would train on everything BUT the implementation you want. It's definitely feasible but wouldn't that be prohibitively expensive for most, if not all, projects?

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#123

Post by observationist »

amiga386 wrote: post #93
observationist wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean in the context of AI - we're already seeing the conflagration of SAAS, and software jobs are going kaput. It's my deeply considered opinion that the faster this happens, the better, because it'll force a reckoning with impending AI job loss across the board. We need to deal with the issues now. The worst possible outcome is a gradual drip-drip-drip of incremental job losses, people shuffling from job to job, t…

It sounds like you'd advocate for accelerationism (by which I mean "to worsen capitalism to promote revolution against it") The end result could well be the people bringing out the guillotines for tech executives, or even the Butlerian Jihad. But I'm not sure everyone would agree we need to race to those dystopian futures. They might prefer a more conservative future where they nip the scamming / copyright infringeme…

It's not naked accelerationism, I just don't want to see years and years of suffering and exploitation and chaos giving a permanent advantage to those already in a position to take that advantage. One significant industry is all it will take; light a fire under the ass of congress and the general public, get people motivated to start taking sensible steps to move towards UBI or some sort of Coasean scheme with nationalized shares distributed to people, or whatever. Doing anything is extraordinarily more effective than doing nothing as this plays out.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#125

Post by keeda »

The name was too much of a giveaway. I just hope that somebody who inevitably builds this for real is self-aware enough to name themselves so transparently.

About the only reason nobody would actually build this is there's no money in it. Who'd pay for a CRaaS version when they're not even paying for the original open source version?

I do think somebody will eventually vibe-code it for the lulz.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#126

Post by intrasight »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #56
Pannoniae wrote: post #46

This is satire but this is where things are heading. The impact on the OSS ecosystem is probably not a net positive overall, but don't forget that this also applies to commercial software as well. There will be many questions asked, like why buy some SaaS with way too many features when you can just reimplement the parts you need? Why buy some expensive software package when you can point the LLM into the binary with…

This is going to bring back software patents.

I was discussing that very point yesterday with a colleague after telling him of recent events. I pointed out that leaning on copyright/copyleft for software has always been a risky move.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#129

Post by kshacker »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #82
ameliaquining wrote: post #4

Note for people who just briefly skimmed the site: This is satire.

W.r.t. intent, yes. But w.r.t. content, we are long past a situation where it is unrealistic enough to function as satire. While such tactics would render certain OSS software licenses absurd, the tactic itself, as a means to get around them, is entirely sound. It just reveals the flawed presupposition of such licenses. And I'm not sure there is really any way to patch them up now.

It will be like Galaxy Quest - they saw the historical records, copied them and then ... still needed humans to help them :)

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#130

Post by saulpw »

eru wrote: post #115
killbot5000 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that humans working together for mutual benefit via any other mechanism than regimented corporate slavery is considered insane.

The quote above didn't mention corporations at all.

"nobody technically employs" strongly implies that this is not a corporate organization.
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