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Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

endowment.dev

121–130 of 176 posts

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#121
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, speaking in the case of the US, this would constitute product development which is well outside the scope of what a 501(c)(3) organization should be doing, which could thereby jeopardize their tax status? Or, in the case of a state-run university, this raises all kinds of issues regarding how tax money is being given away to random schmoes instead of benefitting the public at large. So, yeah, there's plenty of…

> Well, speaking in the case of the US, this would constitute product development which is well outside the scope of what a 501(c)(3) organization should be doing, which could thereby jeopardize their tax status? Doesn't this apply only to for-profit products? There's plenty of 501c3's with free "products".

It is not about whether or not it is available for free, at cost, or otherwise, but whether or not the activity has the character of commercial product development. It's what the product is used for, not what price it's set at. A 501(c)(3) directly developing, or funding the development, of commercial software is not engaged in charitable, educational, or other exempt activities.

For reference: This is exactly what happened to the Yorba Foundation, and numerous others since then.[1]

[1] https://www.stradley.com/business-vantage-point-blog/irs-con...

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all - the OSE donors - are donating personal savings to make this work, and are directly interested to make this org as efficient as possible. Having skin in the game is best way to keep such nonprofits accountable. There is no leftovers or fees - all investment income from donations goes to open source, except for minimized operating expenses (e.g. accounting). It is run by the team of volunteers without salaries…

Are there rules on where you park the money between when you get it and when FOSS gets paid? The README has a 2-3% gap between expected returns and outlays, surely that is not all going to accounting?

You have to give them at least some benefit of the doubt.

I have my own questions yet which I haven't materialized, about the bylaws and selection criteria. But at least they are proposing a new approach.

I'd at least give them a year tryout to see in what it materializes.

At the current state of things I'm a bit in doubts about the market, and how that will change across the year. Though, it would also be interesting, as an idea, to participate in such a process as a member.

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#124
This is pretty amazing. Well, atleast the idea of it but I hope that its execution can stand the tide of time.

I remember being so frustrated with why people aren't using Open source that I created a Ask HN about it [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45558430] (Ask HN: Why are most people not interested in FOSS/OSS and can we change that)

The answer was a bit of chicken and egg problem. For end users, Open source feels second to good UI/UX but for developers who are severely underfunded, UI/UX isn't that much of a concern.

It was also a chicken and egg problem of funding itself, the above problem could've been solved if people could fund developers for better UI/UX or QOL features and then these services can be made better and people could use them de-facto and donate them further.

The issue at the time to me felt like as such, the biggest problem holding Open Source back was its lack of funding. This idea captured my mind so much so that I may or may not have a FOSS manifesto in one of my files after thinking about it for many many days ;)

This seems to be doing something new for Open source. I always preferred Nlnet in such situations but Nlnet is a single donation model whereas this is an endowment model.

I really appreciate the author for creating it as its truly something new for Open source and something which I do feel like is a worthy experiment and I wish this project success to have meaningful impact on the massive funding problem of Open source itself hopefully.

I actually thought of something here but for countries who have sovereign wealth funds, perhaps one can argue that a tiny backdrop of that amount driven into some project like this could do wonders for data sovereignity itself and prevent lock-ins of PSU's if say especially more funding could be given to all Microsoft alternatives as I see online that Microsoft is one of the worst offenders of lock-in for govt.s where If I remember correctly, there were definitely billions of dollars involved (iirc, I could be wrong tho)

I genuinely wish this project massive success for its future. I do think that there are some gotchas within this though (like how are you gonna give the money to contributors and get the money to the contributor who lives in nevada from the infamous xkcd) but I can only hope that given they have built this, they are passionate about the problems with open source and would figure out gotchas (I hope sooner than later)

Also if I may ask if you ever might need any volunteer for the project itself [I would prefer some minimal payment (just enough to pay rent haha) in the spirit of the project itself] then please reach out to me from mail when there might be such need.

Side note but I also believe that one of the ideas I wish to suggest if possible is a side-branch of the endowment which can help non-profits to move from their locked-in solutions to open source solution / self-hosted and have them donate some money instead of paying to the locked-in solutions, but rather paying to the endowment fund itself.

I think you can also combine this with some providers who might wish to donate their hardware resources as well for free (Hetzner/OVH and many other Lowendtalk providers) for perhaps some good-will/some more attention to their company in the cutthroat competition.

So this can help save real money from already non-profits who have important missions and save them money for their real causes rather than hardware costs/licenses/lock-ins and they could instead spend a tiny fraction of that money to fund the project itself which could fund Open source itself as well.

This can end up being a win-win situation in my opinion.

I may be a little too excited but I do see lots of potential.

If possible, I'd love to reach out to you regarding this to have hopefully a meaningful discussion about it.

TLDR: I have also created a excalidraw diagram to better explain what I mean by the last paragraphs.

Here's the link to it: https://gist.github.com/SerJaimeLannister/aad16377a48fe023ac...

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#125

Over the last few years I've talked with hundreds of people in the dev community, and almost everyone shared the same concern: there's no sustainable funding for critical OSS maintenance, and without it the modern world runs on an increasingly fragile foundation. I have personal experience with university endowments, and at some point noticed that the open source world is remarkably similar to a top research universi…

700k from 60+ "founding donors" = an average of 11k per person.

These are people who have net worth values in the 10's to 100's of millions of dollars and they could only give ~10k to open source software?

My goodness we're cooked. The oligarchs are so unbelievably cheap.

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the 2-3% gap between expected returns and outlays? Seems like a lot more than what is needed for accounting (based on the other main person here posting)

The explanation is simple — nobody can predict exact annual returns, and they tend to fluctuate. We aim to spend at least 5% per year on OSS grants and need to decide if we can spend more on them or should reinvest based on specific annual results. And target earnings should overcome inflation.

Reasonable answer, but this part:

> Why not build something super minimal that requires less management and operating costs? That doesn't have the market risk at the center of it all? That doesn't have more points for fraud and abuse?

could still be usefully addressed.

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#127

Over the last few years I've talked with hundreds of people in the dev community, and almost everyone shared the same concern: there's no sustainable funding for critical OSS maintenance, and without it the modern world runs on an increasingly fragile foundation. I have personal experience with university endowments, and at some point noticed that the open source world is remarkably similar to a top research universi…

Just for the love of all things, do not let this become like Wikipedia or Mozilla. The moment you start paying for irrelevant things, you lose donors current and in the future. Nothing more frustrating than those two orgs in terms of where they spend their donor funds.

What happened with Wikipedia? I thought they run a tight optimum ship?

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#128
post #27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you replied to, but I imagine less gameable signals than stars would make sense. Download count, default installs in multiple distros, industrial use cases in the cloud all come to mind. Maybe giving money to the endowment gives you a vote? (Kills two birds with one stone.)

The details of how we're thinking about this are in: https://github.com/osendowment/model Happy to have you join us there to iterate on the model. We do prioritize input from paid-up members ofc. ;^)

> We aim to focus our support on the core of open-source ecosystems — like ~1% of packages accounting for 99% of downloads and dependencies

I guess this is core of plan and will not change?

Because I was thinking about projects like OpenStreetMap which are generating very useful data used by various open source projects, but are not by itself gathering very big pile of dependencies.

I guess that those would be out of scope.

(note: for OpenStreetMap itself I have gigantic conflict of interest, I received some OSM-related grants for software development)

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#129
post #62

Highly skeptical of undemocratic organizations whose founder immediately talks dismissively of government programs. Comments from OP aren't helping either. Just another Silicon Valley bro that wants to be in-charge of something with zero democratic control. Very typical in the current environment, which is why it should be soundly rejected.

In undemocratic organization wishes to fund my development of OpenStreetMap-related software I would gladly take money.

As long as it is not something outright evil like theoretical Gazprom Open Source Fund or something similar.

Re: Open Source Endowment – new funding source for open source maintainers

#130

Over the last few years I've talked with hundreds of people in the dev community, and almost everyone shared the same concern: there's no sustainable funding for critical OSS maintenance, and without it the modern world runs on an increasingly fragile foundation. I have personal experience with university endowments, and at some point noticed that the open source world is remarkably similar to a top research universi…

I've been working on the same libre project for more than 25 years, and making a living from it for about 15, so I have my own perspective on this.

The biggest issue that I see is that even for things that are in some respects "finished", grants on the order of $5k do not change the maintainance picture very much at all. If there's a sudden crisis with critical infrastructure, people will step. But that's precisely what we want to move away from, and to do that the funding needs to be living-wage level, not single-issue grants.

It is awesome when those grants happen, and specific new features or compatibility are worked on. But the sustainability question is really not about that kind of work, for the most part. Somebody needs to actually be the guy in Nebraska and they need to consider that their role. Possibly it is just one role among a few, but it needs to be bigger than a one-and-done $5k-sized role.

The question is really how to redirect the streams of revenue that currently flow toward capital so that the people who work on OSS can do this as a living, not a part time calling. I don't see grants as a significant part of that.

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