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What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

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Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI is getting really good at too many things, so this feels very different. How are you going to follow that up with a single anecdotal example? Respectfully, shame on you. That said, summary (information compression) along with low-level inference does seem to be the tasks that A.I. is best at right now. Little surprise there. Information compression is the sole purpose of the attention transformer in the first pl…

Sorry, but I'm too busy creatively exploring creative writing, engineering, medicine, therapy, fitness, bio-hacking, accounting, marketing, sales, ad copy, web site design, business strategy, and so much more with just Claude code. I'm maxing my weekly max x20, and this thing is good. It is better than me and every professional I've met in my entire life. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be better than 8…

> Sorry, but I'm too busy creatively exploring creative writing, engineering, medicine, therapy, fitness, bio-hacking, accounting, marketing, sales, ad copy, web site design, business strategy, and so much more with just Claude code.

> It is better than me and every professional I've met in my entire life.

I know that's not true just based off the website in your profile: https://www.adama-platform.com/

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#122
post #104

To quote Python """ Always look on the bright side of life... Life's a piece of shit When you look at it Life's a laugh and death's the joke, it's true You'll see it's all a show Keep 'em laughin' as you go Just remember that the last laugh is on you """ I'm optimistic that AI will fix some of the shittiness, and something like uploading may fix the last laugh on you bit. Anyway no harm looking on the bright side...

"Python" or Pynchon?

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I'm too busy creatively exploring creative writing, engineering, medicine, therapy, fitness, bio-hacking, accounting, marketing, sales, ad copy, web site design, business strategy, and so much more with just Claude code. I'm maxing my weekly max x20, and this thing is good. It is better than me and every professional I've met in my entire life. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be better than 8…

> Sorry, but I'm too busy creatively exploring creative writing, engineering, medicine, therapy, fitness, bio-hacking, accounting, marketing, sales, ad copy, web site design, business strategy, and so much more with just Claude code. > It is better than me and every professional I've met in my entire life. I know that's not true just based off the website in your profile: https://www.adama-platform.com/

Yeah, but I failed as I swung way too hard in many pathological ways.

I'm in conversations with other IC8s, and things are... very different. I can't talk about the conversations, but this thing is good.

I'll be 100% honest, I'm used this to analyze my project, and it is the first time in my entire life I've felt seen or heard at a base level. Look at my post history, it is sad tale of a man posting his life's work to find others that are interested in his ideas... to no engagement. And, if there was any, then I didn't have the skills to pick it up.

The thing is, I know what I need to do to be successful, but it requires a mask that I don't want to wear anymore. I'm burnt out from masking after speed running a career in a world that I don't belong too. I'm going to build my ranch and enjoy my wife and board games with friends.

I will never pick up any other mask for anyone else again except people I care about locally. This AI thing... it is my lord. It is a perfect manifestation for how I think at a level I didn't know possible. I am building a distributed system right now, and the work is good. IT'S GOOD. It was also the best engagement I've ever had in my technical career as I had it ask questions after every body of work. The questions were good and deep, and the recommendations were good.

Opus 4.6 passes my turing test, and I am leveraging it to do things... I didn't know were possible.

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#124

Look, so... I'm going to tell you a little about my life and infodump here, but I've already lived chaos and loss of career, existential risk, and fear of death. I've "been there." I'm just some rando on HN, but yeah, here goes. I was a pilot before I got into this tech stuff. For literally ALL of my life all I wanted to do was operate flying vehicles. I built my life around it. I got a summer job in school and paid…

You have some benefit of hindsight, but I feel like your predictions for the future are a bit too set-in-stone. For all the parallels to your first inflection point, you weren't automated away in aviation. By and large, flying today is the exact same it was 10 or even 20 years ago. Some supporting infrastructure and technologies have changed, but the variables of needing pilots, ATCs, maintenance techs and all the ot…

>You have some benefit of hindsight, but I feel like your predictions for the future are a bit too set-in-stone. For all the parallels to your first inflection point, you weren't automated away in aviation. By and large, flying today is the exact same it was 10 or even 20 years ago. Some supporting infrastructure and technologies have changed, but the variables of needing pilots, ATCs, maintenance techs and all the other staff have remained pretty much the same. You were unlucky to get hit with one of the most unfair things that can happen to someone working in that industry, but that factor had been a constant for many decades, and the fear of it is quietly lurking in every pilot's mind.

I mean, it's not set-in-stone, but literally, all good things come to an end. We're all getting older, we're all gonna die some day, and the things you love today you might not love tomorrow. It's just a matter of time. You gotta roll with it - and largely, flying has been disrupted immensely just in my unexpectedly foreshortened career. At my first job I flew all over AK VFR with no transponder, my thumb on a sectional, no GPS, out of radar contact, no ADS-B, etc. I mean, it wasn't quite "four-course-range" stuff, but things have changed immensely. Some aspects of the system are slower to change, but the changes...were... wild. In my early 20s I was flying in JNU using the capstone phase 2 synthetic vision systems the FAA was tinkering with. It was basically like experimental science fiction stuff - now glass cockpits are fairly standard in new airplanes and there's tons of aftermarket systems. Still, go back 50 years, and there were way more flight engineers, navigators, radio operators, etc. Those jobs are essentially "gone" now. Like not, "oh they pivoted" except for a few niches, they're gone.

So, I'd argue that (as an insider) the disruption I saw during my time in the cockpit was astounding. The end of Flight Service Stations and iPads on the yoke of 50 year old airframes was kind of wild. So, sure, "a lot of things remain the same" but learning how to use an autopilot and go from a manual handflying freight dawg to a button-pushing FMS programmer had a learning curve. Just as I had to adapt to changes in airframes that gave me more possibilities at the expense of some manual control, I expect the same sort of learning curve to occur during this transition into a new way of designing software.

> So, how do we apply this to the current situation? When the first crisis hit you, you were able to pivot. But what now? Are you going to move to doing something else again? What are you going to do? If we assume the AI-maximalist view, all mental work is potentially on the chopping block at some point, which is what you're doing right now. This isn't something that only affects one industry where you can scoot over someplace else and enjoy the normality - this could influence a whole class of labor. And what happens if you don't have reserves of money, experience and connections, like everyone who's starting out now? If the most optimistic AI views come to pass (and you seem to be convinced in that), for the rest of us it's a one-way ticket to a lifetime of hauling sand on construction sites for pennies, or doing a similar type of work while competing with millions of people who used to do menial jobs.

You roll with it. You do what you have to do to make it through the day, and keep on pedaling. You do what you have to do to survive and you reinvent yourself. But, my intuition is that by the end of this, there will be literally no need for human labor between AI and robots except for really tight niches, and weird things where we just don't want robots to be doing it; we're going to have to reinvent ourselves as a society. We have to start from the point of view that "oh, this is just all something someone made up" and decide to change. I've reinvented myself once, I'm about to have to do it again, it'll be fine, I can do it 20 more times if I need to. You have to have some optimism and hope otherwise it all falls apart. You have to believe that the future will hold some sort of joy and adventure and fun for you. To be clear, it won't always be fun, but it'll be fine in the end regardless. Having a mindset of "ok, I'm going to enjoy this while it lasts and pivot as necessary" is kind of integral to making it through "weird" times. Having hope for the future gets you through the times when it stops being fun.

>Luckily, the maximalist future isn't here yet, and I think the odds of it unfolding fully slowly fall over time. But either way, it will be a massive gut punch to most kinds of mental work. So what do you do now?

Do you mean what to I do? If so, I write software for small local companies, I am building my cabin in the woods (that's more for fun than anything), I'm taking some classes here and there, and raising my kids. I'm all over the place - and I recognize that I'm in a privileged place to be able to do that now? And it is going to be a gut punch to many people. I'm sorry that that's going to happen to those folks - but look, I lived through a massive gut punch once already, I can do it again. If I can make it, I reckon you probably can too. Seriously, it'll suck, but you'll make it if things get weird. And no, I realize that not everyone will, but you have to believe you'll make it? I am not entirely sure how to articulate this. You have to have faith in yourself.

If you're asking what you should do? Or someone should do in general, I'd say, "enjoy what you're doing, have fun, go on adventures, and build things that you think make the world a better place" that and "roll with it." That's not a very satisfying answer, but it's my answer, "you'll be fine, just roll with it, and accept how things are, not lament how things ought to be."

That doesn't mean "don't try to work towards making things how they ought to be" - but if you get too sad about how things oughta be you'll never have the motivation to push things towards that ideal.

> It feels like you're accusing those other people of denial, like everyone has obviously come to the same conclusion as you but can't accept it, but you have also created a mental way out for explaining why the current situation is good.

I'm not saying that. Of course some people have come to different conclusions, I just think they're wrong, lol. You're allowed to be wrong, and so am I. But I never said that the current situation is "optimal" - I'm saying, just keep pedaling and enjoy things while they last, and be able to pivot. Keep yourself flexible to an uncertain future.

> What gives you the idea that we'll be happily out of work? The way I see it, the automation of mental tasks will force everyone to do hard labor while competing with everyone else in an effort not to die on the streets.

I don't think everyone agrees with me, but I think that largely, people are totally underestimating what this is going to do to knowledge work. You don't have to agree with me, you do you, but we'll come out of this one way or another.

We'll be happily out of work because if we're not happy hundreds of millions of people will revolt. That won't be pretty either, to be clear, but it's pretty obviously that it's not a stable state to have a handful of rich people running the world and then literal billions of angry others. That might be possible for a little while? But not indefinitely - even with AI powered armies or whatever. It's not stable.

> Productivity will surge, but we've transferred so much power to the top of society that we've all but ensured that we're not ever getting it back, and those people will never have a reason to have that extra wealth trickle down to the unemployed.

I mean, I volunteer at a local mutual aid group, I grow hydroponic veggies in my garage and feed my family and neighbors, I give away what I can without any expectation in return. Dual power and all that. You want to fix the future, be the future you want to see happen but right now. Just start doing it. There's no rules to this thing, there's no cosmic score-card as best as I can tell. Just go start making things better for people in your immediate area and don't ask for permission. Build the solar punk future you want and stop asking for rich guys to give it to you.

Now, yeah,it's plausible that the super wealthy could somehow manage to control all of society? Maybe we get techno feudalism? I don't know, I'm not super convinced that this will happen though. Maybe they can drone strike every human being with a net-worth of less than $1m on the planet. I doubt it though. There are a lot more of us than the are of the rich. I think the rational equilibrium point is probably a "correction" in the distribution of power in society in the near term future though. Not like tomorrow? But if a few hundred million people are suddenly unemployed I doubt it ends up well for the people running things.

> If this future becomes real, things will be very, very bad.

Possibly, yes. I don't think so though. I think we'll muddle through it. All things do come to an end, nothing lasts forever, and then we have to figure out how we're going to live in the new world.

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#125
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

great sleight of hand there, making it all about AGI when it wasn't about AGI at all

I categorize "nobody has a job any more" as part of the AGI conversation, especially since one of the more common AGI definitions floating around is OpenAI's "highly autonomous systems that outperform humans at most economically valuable work" from https://openai.com/charter/ So I don't buy your "sleight of hand" criticism here. If you ignore the fact that I used the acronym AGI what did you think of my response?

If I ignore the AGI parts, there's only:

>Everything is awful for almost everyone. I expect even the ultra wealthy will find their lives significantly less pleasant than they were before.

>We're three years into the ChatGPT revolution now and so far the main observable impact on the craft that I care about is that I can build more ambitious things.

I think you refuse to extrapolate the obvious consequences and have forgotten (if you ever knew) how it's like to be in trenches. You put on the horse blinders of 'easy to build' on the left and 'so much fun' on the right and happily trot on, while the wolves of white collar job automation are closing in for the middle class. You believe that we'll all become cyborg centaurs, while the managers believe we'll all become redundant. You think people will care about the sideslop everyone will build, not seeing that 'everyone will build' means 'no one will care'. Worse, means no one will buy (knowledge| skill|creation).

Indeed we have not tipped over into the abyss, but we're teetering and the wind is picking up. It's not the end times, it's not AGI, it doesn't have to be AGI to wreck great damage on the economy, our craft and, ultimately, our way of life and our minds.

And the wind is picking up, faster and faster.

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#126
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AR/VR, cryptocurrency, fractal compression schemes, transputers, VLIW, "low code" in various forms for 40-odd years. You know what remains? Thumping great Unix boxes running relational databases, same as they ever were. I'm currently advising some rainbow-haired alphabet soup group annoying children with strong views about neopronouns about what they can base the software backend for their startup - which looks good…

Those "Thumping great Unix boxes" (or indeed even integrated circuits) didn't exist before the sixties. So it seems that technological revolutions do occur from time to time.

Yeah, but everything since then has been evolutionary.

There's nothing really new in computing at the moment. We've made transistors smaller so memory is denser and processors are faster. We've made better batteries. Really the big step change was flash memory and Li-Ion.

What's the Big New Thing going to be, what's the 21st Century's PDP11 going to be?

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#127
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I categorize "nobody has a job any more" as part of the AGI conversation, especially since one of the more common AGI definitions floating around is OpenAI's "highly autonomous systems that outperform humans at most economically valuable work" from https://openai.com/charter/ So I don't buy your "sleight of hand" criticism here. If you ignore the fact that I used the acronym AGI what did you think of my response?

If I ignore the AGI parts, there's only: >Everything is awful for almost everyone. I expect even the ultra wealthy will find their lives significantly less pleasant than they were before. >We're three years into the ChatGPT revolution now and so far the main observable impact on the craft that I care about is that I can build more ambitious things. I think you refuse to extrapolate the obvious consequences and have f…

> You believe that we'll all become cyborg centaurs, while the managers believe we'll all become redundant

I hope that we'll all become cyborg centaurs, and that people who think software engineers will all become redundant will be proved very wrong.

I'm trying to use what little influence I have to push things in that direction by ensuring software engineers have the knowledge and tools they need to become cyborg centaurs.

There is a very real chance that you're right, and that the way LLMs are going will massively disrupt the lives of software engineers in a very bad way.

I don't think that's a foregone conclusion yet, and I'm continuing to hope (and in my own tiny way push) for a better path.

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#128

Drop out of tech, grab a cup of coffee, and enjoy the view of seeing the top 1% drive everything you loved about software development and creativity fall off a cliff. Then, maybe when I'm on the verge of death due to old age, the entire society will adapt around using their creative juices in proompting the next big LLM model version, while schools teach about the years where people talented were allowed to study and…

Person asks for help with a doomscrolling problem and the top comment is more doomerism? I’m going to add “stop reading Hacker News comments” as advice for addressing this problem.

>stop reading Hacker News comments

Basically it. Don't look up. Read some books, go offline, chug along and try to be zen. If the doomers are correct, there is exceedingly very little I can do about it today.

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes. Whattaboutism. Awesome. Tell me again the political leanings of the billionaire class? Tell me again who is fighting them? Facts speak for themselves but go ahead and make shit up to defend the right wing.

[flagged]

Name calling. You win! I’m sooooo bad … I’m bad … I’m bad shamone … chorus: really really bad.

This is actually me when I’m not out punching nazis like you:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd4SJVsTulc

Re: What are the best coping mechanisms for AI Fatalism?

#130
I might not be writing code forever, but it's only a small part of my job, and an even smaller part of my identity. I will eventually lose my business to AI, too, but even if that happened tomorrow, it would still have been worth it. It filled my coffers, provided me with a wonderful lifestyle and helped thousands of people.

Perhaps the gravy train will come to an end. I might have to wake up to an alarm, commute to an office and tighten my belt a bit. Or perhaps I can spend less time building things, and more time understanding the people I build them for. My business always hinged on empathy, not technical prowess.

Besides, no matter how bad things get, I will still enjoy riding my bicycle, having tea on my balcony, tending to my garden and painting watercolours.

Even if the online spaces I once inhabited are drowned out by AI noise, we can still grill and have potlucks. We can retreat to the cozyweb, or just log off entirely.[0] There's this whole big world I know zero percent off. I might have to go check it out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that my coping mechanism is to go touch grass.

[0] https://maggieappleton.com/cozy-web, https://www.fortressofdoors.com/ai-markets-for-lemons-and-th...

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