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Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

blog.janestreet.com

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Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#121

Post by gosub100 »

wittyusername wrote: post #5
dang wrote: post #175

[stub for offtopicness]

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

People have been trying to use AI in radiology for decades. They still can't get it to do simple tasks like detect pneumonia from an X-ray. I think you are over-estimating how potent this "intelligence" really is.

We were blown away when LLMs came on the scene, because 'whoa, man! Machine can talk like a human', but really, stupid people have been posting online for decades. They talk like humans too! Yet they don't add any value (viz shit posters and trolls).

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#122

Post by dpoloncsak »

thou42o369098 wrote: post #108
b112 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as money being squandered. Money isn't a resource. It's not food, or energy, or even an allotment of work. If you try to seize or reduce, what you perceive as excess, wasted money supply, that money supply will simply cease to exist.

It is when it gets spent - duh! This endless money-spinning & the larger monetary system is a big scam to steal from actual productive work. How is it fair to normal people that the whole system is rigged such that if they DON'T indulge in all this gambling (ignore the fact that most retail traders are on the sucker-end of the trade), they lose whatever wealth they've stored to inflation ?

Maybe I've drank the kool-aid, but I don't understand inflation to be an effect of a 'rigged system'. I think anyway you look at it, it's natural

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#123

Post by dzjkb »

alehlopeh wrote: post #68
wittyusername wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

This kind of thinking denies the humans in question any agency over their own lives. You’re essentially asking for a word government and a planned economy. Does it suck that more resources aren’t funneled into cancer research and other noble pursuits? Yes. But planned economies haven’t cured cancer, and are not likely to, despite denying their people the agency to live their lives as they choose.

People go into finance or adtech not because they have some innate drive towards making markets liquid, they go there mostly because it's more money -> higher quality of life. Moving more money into socially meaningful and beneficial fields (which is still far from a planned economy as the sibling comment noted) is not denying anyone agency.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#124

Post by elektronika »

alehlopeh wrote: post #68
wittyusername wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

This kind of thinking denies the humans in question any agency over their own lives. You’re essentially asking for a word government and a planned economy. Does it suck that more resources aren’t funneled into cancer research and other noble pursuits? Yes. But planned economies haven’t cured cancer, and are not likely to, despite denying their people the agency to live their lives as they choose.

A market economy is just as good if not better at denying "the agency to live their lives as they choose". Do you think the bum on the street or the poor family working paycheck to paycheck have more agency than someone with a decent job at a state owned enterprise and a social safety net? It's absurd.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#125

Post by lupire »

ses1984 wrote: post #102
nvarsj wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very wrong. Arbitrage is not “insider trading”.

They're accused of opening short positions, then pumping and dumping to trigger the shorts. That's not arbitrage.

By "pumping and dumping" do you mean "buying and selling" to outsmart other people trying to outsmart them?

Did they lie about the financial health of the securities they traded?

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#126

Post by renewiltord »

Another classic Jane Street puzzle. Boy this was a good one. Sometimes I look back at my childhood and how quick I was to solve some difficult integrals and so on and now I’d struggle at that. This is far beyond that but the leaps of intuition required here sort of have that property that they need you to stay in the game. Step away a few years and try to come back and there’s just a wall.

I don’t think I’m close to making progress on stuff like this. Interesting to note. Glad they wrote out this behind the scenes thing.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#127

Post by whatever1 »

lupire wrote: post #125
ses1984 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're accused of opening short positions, then pumping and dumping to trigger the shorts. That's not arbitrage.

By "pumping and dumping" do you mean "buying and selling" to outsmart other people trying to outsmart them? Did they lie about the financial health of the securities they traded?

Js manages trades for huge whales that can move markets by themselves.

So yes it is textbook insider trading if you are placing options just before you move the whale.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#128

Post by lupire »

dpoloncsak wrote: post #122
thou42o369098 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is when it gets spent - duh! This endless money-spinning & the larger monetary system is a big scam to steal from actual productive work. How is it fair to normal people that the whole system is rigged such that if they DON'T indulge in all this gambling (ignore the fact that most retail traders are on the sucker-end of the trade), they lose whatever wealth they've stored to inflation ?

Maybe I've drank the kool-aid, but I don't understand inflation to be an effect of a 'rigged system'. I think anyway you look at it, it's natural

Money is an IOU. It's not a secret that US central bank policy is to devalue those IOUs at a rate of 2% per year in order to artificially stimulate demand for production.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#130

Post by lupire »

leoqa wrote: post #103
wittyusername wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

People are arguing about the role of these HFTs being a net good etc. They’re missing the point, these bright kids are trading something more profound- a sense of purpose, a higher calling or passion- to simply run adversarial arbitrage and pump their egos up with puzzles.

They aren't pumping their egos with puzzles. The are pumping their wallets.
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