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EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

environment.ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#121

Post by michaelt »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #74
mentalgear wrote: post #13

The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…

Re. mobile phones it is because it allows sleeker and thinner design, and IMHO it wasn't that common to replace batteries, anyway. But, really this is a non-issue because if you need a new battery for you phone, including iphone and samsung, just get it replaced. That's not super common to need it (again) but there is no issue having it done. I had it done before. So overall I am skeptical that it will make a differe…

> IMHO it wasn't that common to replace batteries, anyway.

Different phone users have very different usage patterns, in my experience.

I don't use my smartphone at home (I have a PC), at work (I have a PC, and a sense of professionalism), in between (can't use a phone while driving or cycling), while exercising or while socialising (it'd defeat the purpose). I'm basically checking public transit schedules, calling taxis, making payments, and occasionally taking a photo or sending a message.

My phone's still at 80% when I put it to charge while I sleep.

On the other hand, a person who spends a load of time on public transit, streaming netflix the whole time? A person who listens to music all day while they work? A delivery/uber driver? A teenager without a computer of their own, who uses their phone for games and social media? And maybe they're on a budget so they have an older device and/or a smaller battery?

These folks are cycling their battery twice a day. Buying portable power banks. Getting fast chargers, for an early evening battery top-up.

It's these people who need to replace their batteries.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#122

Post by 1718627440 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #97
hermanzegerman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it won't. It's about reducing eWaste from the devices itself. Throwing away a whole device just because the battery is bad is much worse than just throwing away a worn out battery. My 9 year old ThinkPad T470 is doing well with his 3rd or 4rd battery (and a new SSD and more RAM). Also external powerbanks are pretty unpractical compared to a fresh new internal battery.

This is indeed a policy aimed at reducing e-waste, including resources and harmful substances from batteries. So allow to find that "yay I can buy more batteries!" is a highly ironic response. And again, all the statements that it this "obviously" better than possibly buying a new phone seem to lack any references to actual data...

The mistake in your argument is thinking that buying batteries results directly in e-waste. It first results in more working batteries being used over the lifetime of a device. Whether that results in more or less waste batteries in wallclock time depends on how that affects the time the device is used. If batteries are also standardized and thus device independent, the device becoming waste also doesn't mean the battery becoming waste automatically.

But yeah, I can see the irony in my comment.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#123

Post by peterfirefly »

progfix wrote: post #111
nephihaha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have such mixed feelings about the EU right now. This battery initiative is definitely a good idea, but I am not onboard with their constant attempts at censorship.

What do you mean exactly with censorship?

[flagged]

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#126

Post by constantcrying »

The EU is one of the worst tech regulators in existence. The only reason they have not yet tried to ban 3D printing is because they are too tech illiterate to have heard of it.

Phone batteries are already replaceable with standard tools. Instead of having waterproof phones, the EU wants to mandate back phones which die when you are caught in a shower. Reliable water proofing is only possible with gluing in seals, I really hope some lobbyist can actually show them what the consequence of their actions will be. I do not want to have to import a phone from the US to get a usable device.

Saving the environment by creating mountains of dead phones, killed by water, is such an incredible EU move.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#127

Post by Hendrikto »

progfix wrote: post #111
nephihaha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have such mixed feelings about the EU right now. This battery initiative is definitely a good idea, but I am not onboard with their constant attempts at censorship.

What do you mean exactly with censorship?

We punish people for saying the truth. In Germany we fined a man for calling a fat politician fat. Which she definitely is, morbidly so. Stuff like that.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#128

Post by peterfirefly »

michaelt wrote: post #121
mytailorisrich wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re. mobile phones it is because it allows sleeker and thinner design, and IMHO it wasn't that common to replace batteries, anyway. But, really this is a non-issue because if you need a new battery for you phone, including iphone and samsung, just get it replaced. That's not super common to need it (again) but there is no issue having it done. I had it done before. So overall I am skeptical that it will make a differe…

> IMHO it wasn't that common to replace batteries, anyway. Different phone users have very different usage patterns, in my experience. I don't use my smartphone at home (I have a PC), at work (I have a PC, and a sense of professionalism), in between (can't use a phone while driving or cycling), while exercising or while socialising (it'd defeat the purpose). I'm basically checking public transit schedules, calling ta…

> On the other hand, a person who spends a load of time on public transit, streaming netflix the whole time? A person who listens to music all day while they work?

That could be me. I am amazed at the battery life of my iPhone 16e. I have no need for daily battery swaps.

(Apple claims something like 21 hours of video streaming on a full charge -- that's on Apple's own streaming service but it is still many hours on Netflix and Youtube.)

The "fast charger" is a tiny 20W USB-C charger that I no longer remember if I bought separately or not. It's nice and fast.

Modern phones are really good at not using much power. Modern batteries are remarkably energy dense. They also degrade slower than older batteries, among other reasons because we have better (and cheaper and greener) additives now. Thank you, Dalhousie and Tesla!

This is legislation that would have made a lot of sense 10-15-20 years ago. It is symbolic now (and likely to be slightly worse for the environment).

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#130

Post by peterfirefly »

vanviegen wrote: post #113
243341286 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you make a phone with replaceable battery to also be water resistant?

Just tight fitting casing with some rubbery edges, nothing special. Just look at smart phones from ~10 years ago.

But we also want devices that are thin and lightweight. Watertight battery compartments are super easy (barely an inconvenience) if you "just" make the device thicker and heavier.
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