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We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

theguardian.com

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Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#121

Post by ethanwillis »

mulmen wrote: post #61
inglor_cz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is about money. The killer app of the US used to be that the US was rich and welcoming to foreigners and politically quite free. China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. Their cultural insularity does not help either. You can live in China, but you will never be accepted as Chines…

> China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. I mean we are literally putting people in concentration camps right now. Kinda hard to take the moral high ground at the moment. Scientists are fleeing the United States for their safety, just like they did from 1930s Germany.

Don't get it twisted. While what is happening is not right, explain to me what happens when there is criticism of China from within China on their treatment of Uyghurs.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#122

Post by afavour »

titanomachy wrote: post #109
mikestorrent wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, perhaps it is time for large, ethnically-homogenous countries that are on the ascent to adopt diversity policies of the sort that the US was approaching before the "vibe shift"

I don’t think diversity policies are what made America diverse.

How could they not be? If people cannot emigrate to the US then they won’t settle there. A relatively open immigration policy absolutely helped make America diverse. I’m pretty sure that’s what OP is referring to, not DEI or whatever the latest boogeyman is.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#123

Post by generic92034 »

dietr1ch wrote: post #37
axismundi wrote: post #2

Come to Europe, we have cookies ;)

I'd love to, but where to? The Swiss are trying to cap population, the Germans elected the AfD, the UK no longer counts.

> the Germans elected the AfD

On federal level they are still at about 25% without an option to come into power. It is bad, but it is not hopeless, yet.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#124

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

oytis wrote: post #110
nerevarthelame wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrence Tao expressed sentiments are at odds with you and which align with the article: > The U.S. used to be sort of the default, the no brainer, option. If you got an offer from a top U.S. university, this was like almost the best thing that could happen to you as an academic ... If it's just a less welcoming, atmosphere for science in general here, the best and brightest may not automatically come to the US as th…

He has a point, but there are no obvious alternatives. It's still a long way towards fascism for USA to actually lose its attractiveness, and it's not that other countries are getting more democratic either

Canada and EU are currently far more attractive if not getting kidnapped by the government and sent to an El Salvadorian torture camp is a priority for you.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#125

Post by dylan604 »

BigGreenJorts wrote: post #118
denkmoon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly Australia is very welcoming to foreigners until you get about 50km out of the major cities. Our xenophobe political party (One Nation) has had a significant rally in the last few years, to the point where by some measures it is the second largest party.

That's probably all that matters TBH. If you can attract top talent to major cities where top schools, research firms, and companies in general, what does the opinions and attitudes of people 50km away matter? Ok It probably matters during elections and the policies that lead up to them (must appease the rural vote with mostly symbolic and emotionally wretching anti-immigrant rhetoric) but cities need skilled (and un…

> what does the opinions and attitudes of people 50km away matter?

Well, using Texas as an example, it's those people 50km away that win elections. Of course, gerrymandering helps, but even with large metro areas leaning left, there's enough of those 50km away that swings that lean to the right.

Ignore the people in the rural areas as your own peril

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#126

Post by michaelteter »

inglor_cz wrote: post #40
beloch wrote: post #25

>"Billions of dollars have been wiped from research budgets, almost 8,000 grants have been cancelled at NIH and the US National Science Foundation alone, and more than 1,000 NIH employees have been fired." ---------------- Scientists go where science is funded. A large proportion of U.S. scientists are also immigrants, who will tend to go where immigrants are welcomed.

Not everything is about money. The killer app of the US used to be that the US was rich and welcoming to foreigners and politically quite free. China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. Their cultural insularity does not help either. You can live in China, but you will never be accepted as Chines…

Are you suggesting that anyone who lives and works here in the US can be accepted as “American”?

Are you also implying that in the US anyone is free to speak negatively of “dear leader”?

There are a multitude of current examples to the contrary.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#127

Post by nativeit »

pessimizer wrote: post #106
SetTheorist wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

77,302,580 people voted for Trump in 2024. That is not "half the country". Nor does he or ever did have the support of "(over) half the country". His maximum approval level in 2025 was at the beginning of his term at 47% "approve" and is currently around 36%, according to the Gallup poll.

It's over half the electorate. Stop changing the standards for democracy and holding the current ex-wrestling valet and game show host to standards than literally no one has been held to in history. It's a desperate, dishonest way to cover up the failure of the opposition to be any better.

An electorate is only as good as the information it uses to make the choice. Fewer than 10% of Americans both stated they routinely read a newspaper (in print or online) yet still walked into a voting booth in 2024 and voted for Trump.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#128

Post by hermanzegerman »

denkmoon wrote: post #87
bluGill wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has always been true, and for everywhere. However very few countries are anywhere near as accepting for foreigners as the US as a whole despite the many who are not. Canada is just as accepting from what I can tell - I don't know enough about Australia to know. Most other countries are far worse - though many will not admit it just how bad their country is.

Sadly Australia is very welcoming to foreigners until you get about 50km out of the major cities. Our xenophobe political party (One Nation) has had a significant rally in the last few years, to the point where by some measures it is the second largest party.

It's the same thing in every country.

Big cities and metropolitan areas are very progressive and welcoming to well educated foreigners, and the countryside is filled with racist idiots who live in fear of something they only know from the television

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#129

Post by api »

denkmoon wrote: post #87
bluGill wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has always been true, and for everywhere. However very few countries are anywhere near as accepting for foreigners as the US as a whole despite the many who are not. Canada is just as accepting from what I can tell - I don't know enough about Australia to know. Most other countries are far worse - though many will not admit it just how bad their country is.

Sadly Australia is very welcoming to foreigners until you get about 50km out of the major cities. Our xenophobe political party (One Nation) has had a significant rally in the last few years, to the point where by some measures it is the second largest party.

It’s the same in the US. Proximity to a city correlates strongly with all forms of openness. It holds nationwide. There aren’t really blue or red states, just predominantly urban or rural ones.

I still don’t quite understand why. The contact hypothesis makes some sense but can that explain the whole urban rural divergence?

Rural populations will even vote hard against their own interests in other areas over culture war stuff.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#130

Post by woodpanel »

mulmen wrote: post #61
inglor_cz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is about money. The killer app of the US used to be that the US was rich and welcoming to foreigners and politically quite free. China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. Their cultural insularity does not help either. You can live in China, but you will never be accepted as Chines…

> China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. I mean we are literally putting people in concentration camps right now. Kinda hard to take the moral high ground at the moment. Scientists are fleeing the United States for their safety, just like they did from 1930s Germany.

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