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How far back in time can you understand English?

deadlanguagesociety.com

121–130 of 432 posts

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I thought it wafnt fo bad, myfelf

oh my god, you're right, they just used an f, no wonder I found it so bad! That is really annoying. Enraging even.

The text doesn't use an `f`. If you copy from e.g. the 1700 passage you get `ſ` not `f`.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#122
post #66
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could intuit the pronunciation but I didn’t make the connection from “wif” to “woman” in general. In hindsight I should have, after all we have words like “midwife” which doesn’t refer to a person’s actual married partner.

I’m a native English speaker and I think this is an easier jump if you know other Romance languages. In Spanish and Portuguese “woman” and “wife” are often the same word, “mujer” and “mulher” respectively.

Also French femme. It isn't limited to Italic languages either. There's also German Frau, Dutch vrouw, Irish bean.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#123
> Somewhere in this section — and if you’re like most readers, it happened around 1300 or 1200 — the language crossed a boundary. Up to this point, comprehension felt like it was dropping gradually, but now it’s fallen off a cliff.

This is generous to his readers. Most American college students majoring in English can't read Dickens, according to a study discussed here last year [0].

People reading a post on a blog about dead languages are self-selected to be better at this task. But so are people who've decided to spend four years of their life studying English literature.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44070716

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#124
I can read until the 1300s, which is about what I expected. I encourage people to go search up historical newspaper archives from the 1700s though, because it becomes significantly harder to parse when you have little to no knowledge of the events, people or even culture of the time.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#125
This is something I struggle with on a semi-regular basis since I'm fairly interested in our constitutional history, so documents like the Bill of Rights 1688/9[1], the Petition of Right 1627[2], etc, are not old or illegible enough to have been given modern translations (like the Magna Carta 1297[3]). As such, they can be difficult reads, particularly with their endless run-on sentences. Punctuation seems to have not been invented yet either.

- [1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/WillandMarSess2/1/2/enact...

- [2] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Cha1/3/1/enacted

- [3] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#126

1400 seems fine except for the one big hurdle being "Þ", which I feel like I'd seen at some point but did not recall. ("ȝ" is useful but that's somewhat easier to guess and not too critical. "ſ" is also easy to guess and I'd seen it before.) 1300 is noticeably harder and needs some iterative refinement, but once you rewrite it, it's surprisingly not too bad: > Then after much time spoke the master, his words were col…

> rauenes

Ravens

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#127
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh my god, you're right, they just used an f, no wonder I found it so bad! That is really annoying. Enraging even.

The text doesn't use an `f`. If you copy from e.g. the 1700 passage you get `ſ` not `f`.

Probably people are confused by ligatures. Indeed it is a long S.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#128
I've been living in a non-English speaking country for 35 years or so. Although I read a lot, my English is still somewhat "frozen". I would still ask you if you have "mown" the lawn - a tense that is now almost lost. Many irregular verbs are becoming regular, I expect due to the large number of ESL speakers.

Language changes. It's weird to see it happening in front of you...

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#129
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience traveling to the Netherlands as an English speaker is that people are speaking English, but they're drunk!

When they seamlessly switch from English to Dutch I feel like I’m having a stroke: all the same intonation, the same accent, but nothing makes sense any more

That doesn't jive with my experience at all. I'm half-dutch, raised in England.

Dutch doesn't have the same intonation, has harsher pronunciations, and has a whole extra sound most English people struggle with (a rolled r).

The older generations also can't pronounce -thew very well as it's not a thing in Dutch, so struggle to pronounce my name, calling me Matchoo instead of Matthew. It still boggles my mind that my Mum would pick a name the Dutch can't pronounce.

The Dutch accent is also extremely noticeable to a native English speaker.

Ultimately, they're not the same at all as English is Germanic/Latin hybrid where half the words are French/Italian words, and half the words are Germanic/Dutch words.

Dutch is not.

You can usually tell by looking at the word and the end of the word.

Words like fantastic, manual, vision, aquatic, consume are all from -ique, -alle, -umme and will have similar words in French/Italian. The tend to be longer words with more syllables.

Words like mother, strong, good, are Germanic in root. The -er, -ong, -od words will all be similar to the German/Dutch words. Shorter, quicker to pronounce.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#130

1400 seems fine except for the one big hurdle being "Þ", which I feel like I'd seen at some point but did not recall. ("ȝ" is useful but that's somewhat easier to guess and not too critical. "ſ" is also easy to guess and I'd seen it before.) 1300 is noticeably harder and needs some iterative refinement, but once you rewrite it, it's surprisingly not too bad: > Then after much time spoke the master, his words were col…

> rauenes Ravens

Amazing. Thanks!
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